[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:06]
CALLING TO ORDER THE SEPTEMBER 21ST, 2022 MEETING OF THE CARLSBAD PLANNING COMMISSION.
WE WILL START WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, LED BY COMMISSIONER MEENES.
. THANK YOU. WOULD THE CLERK CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE? YES. COMMISSIONER LUNA, HERE.
COMMISSIONER KAMENJARIN, HERE.
OK. THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE AUGUST 17TH, 2022 MEETING.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS WITH REGARD TO THOSE MINUTES? COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.THANK YOU. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO COMMEND MS. HARDY FOR MAKING THESE MEETING MINUTES MORE ACTION ORIENTED WITH GENDER NEUTRAL LANGUAGE.
I THINK IT WAS VERY HELPFUL TO THE READING OF IT AND ON PAGE TWO, THE THIRD PARAGRAPH DOWN.
I THINK IT WAS IT SAYS COMPLETELY, BUT I THINK IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLETING? SO THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY COMMENT.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT, THEN I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE.
THE MINUTES OF. AUGUST 17TH, 2022.
IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND OK.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MEENES.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER KAMENJARIN.
COMMISSIONER LUNA. YOURS IS NOT SHOWING UP.
I ABSTAINED BECAUSE I WAS NOT AT THAT MEETING.
MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA, AND THAT WOULD BE FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS ON MATTERS.
[PUBLIC COMMENT]
NOT ON THE AGENDA.MADAM CLERK, DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKER SLIPS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS? YES, WE DO. MR. CHAIR, WE HAVE ONE ON THE TOPIC OF BOUNCELIN.
WOULD YOU COME FORWARD MA'AM. MA'AM WOULDN'T YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME, PLEASE? I'LL GIVE YOU MY FIRST NAME.
THANK YOU. I AM COMING TO SPEAK TO YOU GUYS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING ALL OVER THE PLACE, NOT ONLY IN SAN DIEGO, BUT ACROSS THE NATION IN THE WORLD, IS THE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS ARE BEING USURPED.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS KIND OF COME IN AND MADE IT AS THOUGH THAT THEY ARE ABOVE THE PEOPLE.
AND I'M FINDING THAT MANY TIMES THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING ON.
BUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING REQUIRED TO SAY GET PERMITS FOR SOMETHING OR, YOU KNOW, BE TOLD WHAT THEY NEED TO DO WITH THEIR LAND IS VERY DESTRUCTIVE TO JUST WHAT AMERICA REPRESENTS.
AND I FEEL LIKE IT'S THE PEOPLE'S ISSUE BECAUSE WE'VE ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN.
BUT IT'S TIME FOR THAT TO CHANGE.
AND IT'S TIME FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU GUYS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR NOT REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE AND KIND OF TAKING THINGS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS, DOING WHATEVER YOU WANT IN A WAY OF JUST, YOU KNOW, DICTATOR TYPE OF STUFF.
[00:05:02]
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO REQUIRE PERMITS THAT TAKE MORE TIME AND COST A LOT OF MONEY FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND DO WHAT THEY WANT.AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE CASE.
YOU SHOULD BE IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR PROPERTY, YOU SHOULD BE WILLING TO LET THEM DO IT, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE AREN'T REASONS WHY YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO. IT'S NOT A SAFETY ISSUE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S JUST MORE ABOUT YOU WANT TO DICTATE WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR LAND.
AND THAT'S NOT WHAT AMERICA WAS BUILT UPON.
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FREE PEOPLE.
AND IF WE CAN'T BE FREE, THEN.
THEN WHAT'S THE POINT? RIGHT. BUT IT'S LIKE THE CONSTITUTION IS THE LAW OF THE LAND AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED IN EVERY DECISION THAT YOU GUYS MAKE.
AND SO I JUST ASK THAT YOU LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT COME BEFORE YOU TODAY AND THAT YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING FROM A PLACE OF WANTING THE BEST.
AND DON'T JUST VOTE IT AWAY BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT AUTHORITY THAT YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN BY THE PEOPLE.
I HOPE THAT YOU CAN CONSIDER WHAT THEY SAY AND TAKE IT TO HEART AND KNOW THAT THEY DON'T JUST COME HERE TO WASTE THEIR TIME, THAT THEY ACTUALLY REALLY CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SPEAK TO YOU GUYS ABOUT.
SO I JUST ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER THAT AND THAT YOU TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM INSTEAD OF JUST KIND OF NOT PAYING ATTENTION, BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WILL BE ON THEIR PHONES OR, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY CARING WHAT THE PEOPLE SAY.
AND WE PAY FOR YOU TO BE UP HERE.
WE GIVE YOU GUYS THE POWER THAT YOU SO-CALLED HAVE.
AND IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, THEN YOU CAN'T BE IN THIS POSITION ANYMORE EITHER.
THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER KAMENJARIN, I HAVE YOU, WANT TO BE RECOGNIZED FOR SOMETHING? NO. JUST MADE A MISTAKE.
OKAY. YOU'RE IN THE QUEUE HERE.
ALL RIGHT. BEFORE WE GO TO OUR AGENDA ITEM, I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE PROCEDURES THAT YOU WILL SEE ON OUR SCREEN HERE, AND PARTICULARLY THE REQUIREMENT THAT YOU SUBMIT A SPEAKER SLIP.
REQUEST TO SPEAK FORMS REQUIRED FOR ALL ITEMS. WE HAVE ONE ITEM TONIGHT.
REQUESTS TO SPEAK FORMS MUST BE TURNED IN TO THE MINUTES CLERK PRIOR TO THE ITEM COMMENCING.
ALL SPEAKERS WILL BE GIVEN 3 MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS REDUCED BY THE CHAIRPERSON.
SO AT THIS POINT, IF THERE'S ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE UPCOMING ITEM NOW WOULD BE AND YOU HAVE NOT FILLED OUT A SPEAKER SLIP. NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO DO SO.
FINE. WE WILL GO AHEAD AND THEN START WITH OUR PUBLIC CARRYING ITEMS AND THAT WE WILL CALL THE ITEM NUMBER ONE ON OUR PUBLIC HEARING AND WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM ONE.
[1. PCD2022-0003 (DEV2022-0168) - STRAWBERRY FIELD OUTDOOR ENTERTAINMENT USE2. CT 2021-0005/PUD 2021-0010/CDP 2021-0067 (DEV2021-0183) – CHINQUAPIN COAST HOMES]
AND I WILL START BY INQUIRING OF COMMISSIONERS WITH REGARD TO SITE VISITS, INVESTIGATIONS, OR EX PARTY CONTACTS.THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER KAMENJARIN.
THREE GENERATIONS OF MY FAMILY HAVE ATTENDED THIS SITE OVER THE DECADES AND WE'VE ATTENDED EVENTS.
COMMISSIONER MEENES YES, I DRIVE BY THE SITE QUITE OFTEN.
THANK YOU. SO IT'S INTERESTING.
DUE TO THE UNIQUE DESCRIPTIONS IN OUR PACKET, I DECIDE TO VISIT THE SUNDAY, THIS PAST SUNDAY SO I COULD SEE THE OPERATIONS OR SOME ASPECTS OF THE THAT YOU DON'T NORMALLY SEE IN A PLANNING COMMISSION PACKAGE.
YEAH. GOING THROUGH AS I WAS WALKING AROUND THE SITE, I WAS FLAGGED DOWN BY THE APPLICANT, MR. YOKOGAWA. AND SO INTERESTINGLY, I DON'T NORMALLY WE DON'T SEEK OUT ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS OUTSIDE THE PUBLIC MEETING.
[00:10:10]
BUT I WAS ON, YOU KNOW, HIS LEASEHOLD PROPERTY AND HE INTRODUCED HIMSELF AND CAME OVER AND TALKED.SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, I WAS ABLE TO GET A TOUR OF THE ENTIRE SITE AND WHICH WAS ACTUALLY HELPFUL TO SEE SOME OF THE PARTICULAR ITEMS AS THERE'S SOME SPECIFIC ITEMS MENTIONED IN IT.
ONE THING I WANT TO EMPHASIZE, THOUGH, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, DURING OUR CONVERSATION, I DID NOT DISCLOSE MY THOUGHTS OR VIEWS ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF IT, BUT I DID TELL THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY VERY MUCH APPRECIATES ALL THE PUBLIC INPUT WE GET.
THERE'S ONE TECHNICAL ASPECT OF THE CUP THAT HE DID BRING UP IN OUR CONVERSATION.
I THINK IT WOULD BE MOST APPROPRIATE DURING COMMISSIONER COMMENTS TO GO OVER THAT.
AND THEN WE JUST BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, LOOKED AT THE IMPACT OF THE SITE.
I WAS ABLE TO DRIVE AND SEE THE ENTIRE SITE.
THE PART OF THE DISCUSSION WAS IMPACT.
I LOOKED VERY CLOSELY AT THE INGRESS AND EGRESS TO THE SITE, ASKED THEM ABOUT PARKING ON THE SITE.
WHEN YOU DO A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OF ONE THING THAT IS REQUIRED BECAUSE I'M A COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER AND I'VE DEALT WITH CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, IS IT REQUIRES THE CONSENT, THE WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO IN ORDER TO PROCESS THAT NORMALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A TENANT AND A LANDLORD WORKING TOGETHER TO DO THAT.
THE APPLICANT EXPRESSED TO ME HIS CONCERN ABOUT GOING TO HIS LANDLORD.
AND SO THAT'S WHY HE DID NOT WANT TO PURSUE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT DOES REQUIRE THE SIGNED AUTHORIZATION OF THE LANDHOLDER. AND THAT THAT DID COME UP IN THAT CONVERSATION.
I WAS GOING TO MENTION THAT LATER, BUT HE DID SHARE THAT WITH ME AND THAT'S IT.
I THINK THAT'S THE MOST SALIENT THING THAT CAME UP.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.
THANK YOU. I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE AND ANNUALLY REGULARLY BUY STRAWBERRIES FROM THAT SITE.
THANK YOU. I VISITED THE SITE ON SATURDAY.
I WALKED AROUND THE PARKING LOT AND LOOKED AT THE FACILITY.
BEFORE TURNING TO STAFF, I WANT TO ALERT THE AUDIENCE TO OUR PROCEDURES HERE TONIGHT.
THOSE ARE THE PROCEDURES FOR OUR HEARING.
AND WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THOSE STEP BY STEP.
START OUT WITH A BRIEF STAFF PRESENTATION.
COMMISSIONER, OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS.
A PELLET PRESENTATION, WHICH WE CALL AN APPLICANT, BUT IT'S A APPELLANT IN THIS ONE BECAUSE IT'S AN APPEAL COMMISSIONER OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS OF APPELLATE PUBLIC COMMENT. THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUBMITTED SPEAKERS WILL CALL ON YOU ONE AT A TIME.
SO THAT'S KIND OF A PLAYBOOK ON WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW TONIGHT AS WE PROCEED WITH THIS HEARING.
THE APPELLANT OR APPLICANT APPELLANT IN THIS CASE FILED A TIMELY APPEAL OF THAT DECISION.
SO THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION.
AND PRESENTING THAT ITEM IS THE LEAD PROJECT PLANNER, KYLE VAN LEEUWEN.
AND THEN ALSO JOINING HIM IS THE CITY PLANNER, ERIC LARDY.
THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS.
THE PROPERTY HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN USED FOR AGRICULTURE.
THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS IN THE SPRING AND THE PUMPKIN PATCH IN THE FALL.
HOWEVER, THE PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE DEFERRED CERTIFICATION ZONE WITHIN THAT PROGRAM.
[00:15:04]
THEREFORE, ANY COASTAL DEVELOPMENT PERMITS WOULD NEED TO BE REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE CALIFORNIA COASTAL COMMISSION.OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THE ACTIVITY HAS HAVE INCREASED.
THE CITY PLANNER DETERMINATION PROVIDED A SUMMARY OF WHAT WAS ALLOWED BY RIGHT AS EITHER AGRICULTURAL OR RECREATIONAL USES, AND THEN WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROCESS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
AGRICULTURAL TOURISM IS A GROWING FIELD THAT WHERE PRODUCERS TRY TO DIVERSIFY AND INCREASE PROFITS.
THIS IS THE SITE IN 2017, AND THEN THIS IS THE SITE IN 2022.
BUT THIS IS THE LATEST AVAILABLE AERIAL IMAGERY.
AGRITOURISM IS NOT LISTED AS A PERMITTED USE IN THE PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE.
THE PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE DOES LIST USES THAT ARE ALLOWED BY WRITE, IN OTHER WORDS, WITHOUT NEEDING ADDITIONAL DISCRETIONARY ACTIONS AND WOULD BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THE STANDARD OF REVIEW IS WHAT USES ARE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO WHAT IS OUTLINED IN THE PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE. PERMITTED BY RIGHT ARE AGRICULTURAL USES, RECREATIONAL FACILITIES AND ACCESSORY USES AND STRUCTURES.
KEY FACTORS IN THE DETERMINATION ARE WHAT ARE THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS AND RELATED LAND USE PROCESSES AND WHAT WOULD BE THE MAIN USE DRIVING CUSTOMERS TO THE SITE? IS IT AGRICULTURE OR IS IT THE OTHER USES? WITH THIS DETERMINATION AND AFTER CAREFUL EVALUATION OF THE EVIDENCE SUBMITTED, THE CITY PLANNER SUBMITTED A DETERMINATION OUTLINING WHAT USES ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT.
TABLES ONE AND TWO IN THE DETERMINATION HIGHLIGHT THE USES THAT ARE ALLOWED BY WRITE.
THERE IS ONLY ONE MINOR DISAGREEMENT IN THESE TWO TABLES.
THE THIRD TABLE OUTLINES WHAT USES WOULD BE MOST SIMILAR TO THE FAIRGROUNDS USE CLASSIFICATION.
THIS USE CLASSIFICATION IS ALLOWED IN 11 ZONES WITHIN THE CITY AND IN EVERY ZONE IT IS ALLOWED AS A PROCESS THREE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHICH IS APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. WHAT CAN BE ASSUMED AS PART OF THAT IS THAT THE HIGHER INTENSITY USES WOULD REQUIRE INDIVIDUAL SITE EVALUATION AS PART OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FINDINGS, A FACTOR REQUIRED THAT IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.
THE CITY PLANNER. DETERMINATION IS NOT A LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.
IT CANNOT SET CONDITIONS SUCH AS TIME OF OPERATIONS.
IT CANNOT ESTABLISH INTENSITY OF THE USE.
AND IT CANNOT ESTABLISH REQUIREMENTS FOR AGRICULTURE ON SITE.
IT ALSO CANNOT ADD NEW DEFINITIONS TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT OUTLINED IN THE DETERMINATION.
THERE IS ANOTHER PROCESS THAT THE OPERATOR CAN GO THROUGH.
THIS COULD ALLOW USES THAT ARE NOT LISTED AS BUY RIGHT FOR A LIMITED TERM IN NATURE.
WE'RE GOING TO SPEND A COUPLE OF SLIDES GOING OVER.
WHAT DOES THE DETERMINATION ACTUALLY SAY?
[00:20:02]
IN SUMMARY NOTHING ON THE SITE IS EFFECTIVELY PROHIBITED.THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN NO ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TAKEN ON THIS SITE.
THESE USES RIGHT HERE ARE PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
NONE OF THE CURRENT ADVERTISEMENTS ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THOSE USES AND THAT BY RIGHT DETERMINATION.
THESE ARE THE USES THAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH FINDINGS OF COMPATIBILITY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GENERAL PLAN, LOCAL COASTAL PROGRAM AND TRAFFIC AND STREET SYSTEM NETWORK.
THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT COULD EVEN INCLUDE THE USES THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY BEING APPEALED.
HOWEVER, IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THESE ARE NOT CURRENTLY BEING PURSUED BY THE OPERATOR.
IT IS A VERY COMMON PROCESS FOR LAND USE ACTIVITIES THROUGHOUT CALIFORNIA.
IMPACTS WOULD BE ANALYZED BASED ON WHATEVER SUBMITTED AND SITE SPECIFIC.
SO IT COULD INCLUDE RESTRICTIONS ON MONTHS OF THE YEAR OF OPERATIONS, TIMES SIZE AND INTENSITY.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT CONDITIONS MIGHT BE PUT ON IT UNTIL WE WOULD RECEIVE AN APPLICATION.
THEN WE WOULD EVALUATE THE USE AND PROPOSED IMPACTS.
IN OTHER WORDS, WHILE THE CITY PLANNER DETERMINATION IS LIMITED TO AN ALL OR NOTHING BY WRITE FOR USES IN SIMILAR ZONES CITYWIDE, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WOULD BE REVIEWED FOR THIS SPECIFIC SIZE.
AND THEN FINALLY THERE IS ALSO THE SPECIAL EVENT PROCESS WHICH IS CURRENTLY BEING USED AND ALLOWED.
THE CODE STATES THAT THE APPEAL SHALL SPECIFICALLY STATE THE REASON OR REASONS FOR THE APPEAL.
GROUNDS FOR THE APPEAL SHALL BE LIMITED TO IF THERE WAS AN ERROR OR ABUSE IN DISCRETION ON THE PART OF THE CITY PLANNER, OR THE DECISION WAS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTS PRESENTED, OR THAT THERE WAS NOT A FAIR OR IMPARTIAL HEARING, IF APPLICABLE, TO THE DECISION.
FOR THIS DETERMINATION, THERE IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ADDITIONALLY, THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S CONSIDERATION IS DE NOVO OR LIKE NEW, SO IT LIMITS THE CONSIDERATION TO THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO THE CITY PLANNER FOR CONSIDERATION IN WHAT IS BEING APPEALED.
NO NEW INFORMATION CAN BE SUBMITTED AS PART OF THIS PLANNING COMMISSION'S DETERMINATION, AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAY UPHOLD, MODIFY OR OVERTURN THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION. A TIMELY APPEAL WAS FILED ON A NUMBER OF COMPONENTS OF THE CITY PLANNER DETERMINATION.
HOWEVER, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF USES IN TABLE THREE THAT WERE APPEALED.
WE'VE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED AS PART OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION PACKAGE AND THEN DISTRIBUTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND POSTED ONLINE AS THEY WERE RECEIVED.
PROPOSITION D IMPACTED ALL OF THE AREAS THAT ARE OUTLINED IN ORANGE ON THIS SITE.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OPTIONS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AS STATED EARLIER, THE PLANNING COMMISSION COULD DENY THE APPEAL.
AFFIRMING THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION, IT COULD UPHOLD THE APPEAL AND DIRECT STAFF TO PREPARE A RESOLUTION TO ALLOW THE APPEAL USES OR COULD UPHOLD THE APPEAL, IN PART DIRECTING STAFF TO PREPARE A RESOLUTION TO ALLOW CERTAIN APPEALABLE USES.
[00:25:04]
APPROVAL. IN SUMMARY OF SOME OF THE POINTS WE'VE HIGHLIGHTED, THE DETERMINATION DOES NOT PROHIBIT ANY USES.IT SETS FORTH THE PERMIT PROCESS.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S ACTION EITHER WAY COULD BE APPEALED TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
AS PART OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, AN ACTION AFFIRMING THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION IS NOT A PROJECT UNDER THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT, AND THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADOPT A RESOLUTION DENYING THE APPEAL AND UPHOLDING THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION.
THAT CONCLUDES OUR PRESENTATION AND WE ARE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
THE SITE IN QUESTION IS ACROSS THE STREET FROM ARC CAR COUNTRY CARLSBAD AND I WAS WONDERING IF THE STAFF HAS RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE FROM THE OWNERS OF THOSE CAR DEALERSHIPS, PARTICULARLY THE ONES CLOSEST TO THE STRAWBERRY FIELD CONCERNING THIS APPEAL? CHAIR STEIN NO, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE, ABOUT THE OPERATIONS.
OK WITH REGARD, HAVE WE HAD ANY INCIDENTS REPORTED THAT, YOU KNOW, OF OF TRAFFIC CONGESTION, PARKING ISSUES OR ANY TRAFFIC OR MOBILITY ISSUES RIGHT AROUND THE SITE, THE DRIVEWAY INTO THE SITE? WE HAVE NOT. WE'VE DISCUSSED WITH PUBLIC WORKS STAFF AND WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY SPECIFIC COMPLAINTS OR ACCIDENTS THAT WE CAN DETERMINE WERE RELATED TO THE ACTIVITIES ON THE SITE.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.
THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.
IS THAT CORRECT? THE DETERMINATION SAID THAT THE USES REQUESTED WERE MOST SIMILAR TO THE FAIRGROUNDS USE CLASSIFICATION THAT'S ALLOWED IN PUBLIC UTILITY.
WHERE IS THAT DEFINED IN THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE? FAIRGROUNDS IS NOT DEFINED IN THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE.
SO THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS IF WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION FOR FAIRGROUNDS IN THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE, I'M CONCERNED THAT THESE USES MAY NOT MAY OR MAY NOT BE DEFINED IN THAT.
THE OTHER CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS THIS PROPERTY ISN'T OWNED BY.
IT'S OWNED BY WHO? THE PROPERTY IS OWNED BY SAN DIEGO GAS AND ELECTRIC.
IS SAN DIEGO GAS AND ELECTRIC CONSIDERED A PUBLIC ENTITY? I WOULD DEFER TO ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
NO, THEY ARE A PRIVATE CORPORATION OWNED BY SHAREHOLDERS FOR SOME INSTANCES UNDER THE LAW.
THEY ARE TREATED AS A QUASI PUBLIC ENTITY, BUT NOT FOR THESE PURPOSES.
OKAY. SO THEN UNDER THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE, THE ONLY PLACE THAT BOUNCE HOUSES ARE ACTUALLY QUANTIFIED OR QUALIFIED IS ACTUALLY IN CHAPTER 11 UNDER THE PARKS DEPARTMENT.
SO I WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF IT WAS CONSIDERED PUBLIC PROPERTY.
TO UNDERSTAND IF THOSE QUALIFICATIONS FOR BOUNCE HOUSES ON PUBLIC LAND WOULD ACTUALLY BE ALLOWABLE.
AND BUT IF IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY PUBLIC PROPERTY, THEN IT DOESN'T FALL UNDER CHAPTER 11.
IT IS OWNED BY A PRIVATE ENTITY.
I GUESS JUST TO CLARIFY, COURTS HAVE FOUND THAT SAN DIEGO GAS AND ELECTRIC IS ACTING AS A PUBLIC ENTITY ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF INVERSE CONDEMNATION WHEN THERE'S BEEN A TAKING OF LAND AFTER A FIRE.
OKAY, SO THE DESCRIPTION IN CHAPTER 11 ABOUT USE OF BOUNCE HOUSES IN PUBLIC LANDS IS NOT APPLICABLE.
I WOULD ASSUME SO I'LL GO BACK AND LOOK AT CHAPTER 11.
BUT IF IT'S REFERRING TO PUBLIC LAND, THEN IT WOULD NOT BE APPLICABLE.
YOU'VE GOT DIFFERENT ZONES, YOU'VE GOT BUY, RIGHT.
[00:30:10]
HERE IS INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSES, GAMES AND FACE PAINTING.YES. THOSE ARE THE ACTIVITIES APPEALED AND THE APPLICANT IN NEW AND PREVIOUS OR THE APPELLANT IN YOU IN PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS HAS TAKEN OFF MECHANICAL BULL RIDING FOOD TRUCKS, HIGH PRESSURED CANNON THAT SHOOTS APPLES AT TARGETS.
BUT I'D DEFER TO THEM ON THEIR SPECIFIC OPERATIONAL DECISIONS.
AND I DID SEE THAT IN THE STAFF REPORT.
I THINK YOU HAD THE CFF FIRE TRUCK.
WAS PERMITTED BY, RIGHT? IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
SO THAT IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN ADDITIONALLY, A NUMBER OF EVENTS WOULD FALL UNDER THE PURVIEW OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THAT WOULD BE THE BEER GARDEN, SPEAKEASY, OCTOBERFEST.
IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? OUR UNDERSTANDING IS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT PROCESS RIGHT NOW FOR THEIR OCTOBER ACTIVITIES.
OKAY. SO THE ONLY ITEMS WE'RE REALLY CONSIDERING TODAY IS THE INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSE GAMES AND FACE PAINTING AND THE STAGE LIMITED OR IF IT IS LIMITED TO STORYTELLING OR NOT, CORRECT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER COMMENTS? SEEING NONE. THANK YOU.
WE WILL NOW INVITE THE APPELLANT.
I ALMOST SAID APPLICANT, BUT IT'S APPELLANT TO COME FORWARD AND GIVE AN PRESENTATION.
MIKE HOWES. HOW'S WEILER LAND? 2800 LOCAL AVENUE EAST CARLSBAD.
I, AS WELL AS MOST OF THE OTHER AUDIENCE, ARE WONDERING WHY WE'RE EVEN HERE TONIGHT.
THERE'S NO REASON FOR THIS HEARING.
WE'RE HERE BECAUSE CITY STAFFERS SAY, OH, NO, NO, COME ON.
WE GOT IT. HOLD IT, PLEASE, LADY.
AND WE HAVEN'T STARTED A PETITION YET, BUT WE PUT A PETITION OUT THERE.
YOU'LL HAVE HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF SIGNATURES.
I WILL SPEAK ABOUT PLANNING AND TECHNICAL ASPECTS THIS APPEAL.
WE STRONGLY BELIEVE STAFF MADE AN ERROR IN THEIR JUDGMENT, AND WE CAN ALL MAKE MISTAKES AND BELIEVE THAT STAFF HAS TAKEN A HARD LINE REGULATORY APPROACH INSTEAD OF LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS. WE'VE PROVIDED THE CITY WITH SEVERAL WAYS TO RESOLVE THIS ISSUE.
FIRST, THE GENERAL PLAN IN THE LETTERS OF SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2022 TO EX PLANET COMMISSIONER CARRIE SIGMAN PROVIDED POINTS OUT SEVERAL SECTIONS OF THE CARLSBAD'S GENERAL PLAN. THEY'RE KIND OF BEING IGNORED BY STAFF.
THAT BRING INCOME TO AREA FARMERS ONLY OPEN SPACE AND CONSERVATION AND RECREATION ELEMENT.
UTILIZE AVAILABLE METHODS AND RESOURCES TO REDUCE THE FINANCIAL BURDENS ON AGRICULTURAL LAND.
THE TEXT MAY NOT MEAN MUCH TO STAFF, BUT IT MEANS A LOT TO ME.
THEY WEREN'T JUST TEXT IN THE GENERAL PLAN TO MAKE THE CITY FEEL GOOD.
ANOTHER SOLUTION WE PROVIDE IS A PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE.
AGAIN, AS POINTED OUT BY MR. SIEGMAN AND OTHERS, THE PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE IS THE ONLY ZONE IN THE CITY OF CARLSBAD THAT ALLOWS PASSIVE AND ACTIVE RECREATIONAL USES BY RIGHT. YEAH.
ALL I KNOW IS THAT MY GRANDDAUGHTER IS IN THE BOUNCE HOUSE AND ON THE LITTLE STAGE.
SHE'S HAVING A LOT OF FUN AND RECREATING.
SURE SEEMS LIKE A RECKLESS USE TO ME.
[00:35:02]
AND ALSO THESE THINGS ARE BASICALLY ANCILLARY TO THE AGRICULTURE.IF YOU EVER GO OUT AND REALLY LOOK AT THE SITE.
I TOOK A TRACTOR RIDE AROUND THE SITE WITH JIMMY.
THESE THESE USES ARE JUST A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE SITE.
MOST OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT SITE IS USED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, GAINS ARE CHANCE OF SKILL.
I WAS PLAYING THEM, YOU KNOW, I GUESS THERE MAY BE CHANCE OF SKILL BECAUSE I WHEN I WAS PLAYING ON MY GRANDDAUGHTER'S BEAT ME, YOU KNOW, AND NO ONE'S COMING TO THE SITE OFF SEASON FOR THESE FACILITIES.
NO ONE'S COMING, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE NOT GROWING CROPS TO USE THESE FACILITIES.
STAFF ALSO IS CONCERNED ABOUT PRECEDENTS.
IF WE ALLOW THIS YEAR, WE HAVE TO ALLOW IT IN ANY SENSE.
WELL, THIS IS A UNIQUE SITUATION.
AND THIS IS THE ONLY ZONE THAT ALLOWS RECREATIONAL USES BY.
RIGHT. SO THIS DOESN'T ESTABLISH A PRECEDENT.
IN CLOSING, WHEN YOU REVIEW THE STAFF, WHAT I BELIEVE IS IS CLEAR.
IT'S IT'S JUST REGULATION FOR REGULATION SAKE.
THERE'S NOT A PROBLEM OUT THERE.
WE'VE GOT ONE COMPLAINT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE HAVING A GREAT TIME.
IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE JIMMY'S RUNNING A CARNIVAL.
HE'S THE LAST THE LAST FARMER, UNSUBSIDIZED FARMER.
CARLSBAD AND HIS FAMILY'S BEEN FARMING HERE FOR GENERATIONS.
WE BELIEVE THAT JONES, THE STAFF HAVE SHOWN, MADE AN ERROR IN THEIR JUDGMENT.
AND AS PLANNING COMMISSIONER, YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY AND THE RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE A BROADER VIEW THAN STAFF IS PRESENTING THE REPORT, SUCH AS GIVING WEIGHT TO THE STATEMENTS IN THE GENERAL PLAN REGARDING AGRICULTURE.
THANKS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND I REQUEST THE ABILITY TO RESPOND TO ANY PUBLIC TESTIMONY.
EVERYBODY HERE THAT'S IN SUPPORT OF WHAT I'M SAYING, PLEASE QUIETLY STAND UP.
ONE MORE QUICK ONE. WE FORGOT.
I GOT A FEW QUICK PICTURES, ONE TO SHOW.
THIS IS WHAT THE BOUNCE HOUSES LOOK LIKE FROM THE FREEWAY.
IT'S JUST SOME KIDS RECREATING IN THE BOUNCE HOUSES.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU'D CALL THIS OTHER THAN RECREATION.
IT'S NOT. IT'S BASICALLY SOME HAY BALES AROUND A LITTLE PLATFORM THAT KIDS PLAY ON.
IT'S NOT LIKE KNOW YOU HAVE MAJOR CONCERTS LIKE YOU HAVE AT THE PARKS.
THIS IS THE LITTLE KIDS GAMES.
THIS IS ANOTHER VIEW OF HOW THE BOUNCE HOUSES ARE HIDDEN WITHIN THE CORN.
YES, SIR. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.
HONORABLE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK.
I LIVE AT 1270 PLUM TREE ROAD.
MY FAMILY FIRST STARTED FARMING IN CARLSBAD IN 1952 AT PEAK IN THE MID SEVENTIES.
BUT THAT WAS WHEN MINIMUM WAGE WAS A DOLLAR 65 AND WATER COST WAS ABOUT $250 AN ACRE FOOT.
TODAY, I GROW A TOTAL OF 50 ACRES OF STRAWBERRIES, CORN, PUMPKINS AND FLOWERS.
MINIMUM WAGE IS $15, AND OUR WATER COST IS AMONG THE HIGHEST IN THE NATION, AT $1,750 AN ACRE FOOT. LAST YEAR, WE PAID $140,000 FOR OUR WATER, $100,000 FOR SEEDLINGS AND SEEDS AND 100, $100,000 JUST TO FUMIGATE THE GROUND.
AND THAT'S NOTHING COMPARED TO OUR TOTAL LABOR.
[00:40:04]
DIFFICULT IN ORDER TO SURVIVE.WE'VE HAD TO ADAPT TO A NEW BUSINESS MODEL.
THE USDA DEFINES AGRITOURISM AS A COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE AT A WORKING FARM CONDUCTED FOR THE ENJOYMENT AND EDUCATION OF VISITORS THAT GENERATES SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME FOR THE OWNER OR OPERATOR.
SPRING BECAME A TIME WHERE WE COULD HOLD A STRAWBERRY FESTIVAL.
WE BECAME KNOWN FOR U-PICK AND GREAT TASTING STRAWBERRIES.
EARLY FALL BECAME A SEASON TO GROW.
PUMPKINS INVITE THE PUBLIC TO ENJOY CORN MAZES, TAKE A TRACTOR RIDE, SIT IN THE SHADE, BOUNCE HOUSES, WATCH OUR KIDS, ENJOY STORY TIME AND TAKE PICTURES THAT PHOTOS THAT YOU'LL TREASURE FOREVER.
WE ARE NOT A FAIRGROUNDS OR A CARNIVAL AND THERE ARE NO GAMES OF CHANCE.
LAST NOVEMBER, WHEN I ASKED STAFF WHAT THE REASON WAS FOR THIS INVESTIGATION INTO OUR BUSINESS, WE WERE TOLD MANY TIMES BY STAFF THAT THEY WERE IN POSSESSION OF MANY LETTERS OF COMPLAINT.
WE WANTED TO KNOW THE NATURE OF THE LETTERS, SOME COMPLAINTS, SO WE COULD FIX WHATEVER WAS WRONG.
WE HAD TO ASK STAFF THREE TIMES FOR THE LETTERS.
THEN WE FILED A REQUEST VIA THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT.
IN JULY, STAFF INFORMED US THERE WERE NO LETTERS.
THERE WAS ONE PHONE CALL COMPLAINING ABOUT US.
WE'VE AGREED TO STOP OUR ANIMAL.
WE HAVE AGREED TO STOP OUR APPLE.
CANNON'S MECHANICAL BULL RIDING THE SPEAKEASY THAT RAISES MONEY FOR LOCAL CHARITIES.
AND EVEN WE'VE AGREED TO STOP FACE PAINTING.
PASSIVE AND ACTIVE RECREATION ARE ALLOWED IN THAT ZONE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. MEENES FOR STAFFER.
THAT'S RIGHT. GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
MR. ATTORNEY, WOULD YOU PROVIDE TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION REGARDING HAD YOU CONDUCTED MEETINGS WITH THE APPELLANT AND HIS REPRESENTATIVES AND HAD YOU DISCUSSED THE ADVANTAGES, DISADVANTAGES OF THE CUP APPLICATION MAYBE VERSUS THE OTHER TYPE OF SPECIAL PERMITS? HAD THERE BEEN DISCUSSION IN REGARD TO THAT AND CLARIFYING PROS AND CONS, ETC.? THERE HAVE BEEN SOME MEETINGS WITH THE APPELLANT.
A LOT OF THOSE WERE WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR JEFF MURPHY PRIOR TO MY INVOLVEMENT, WHICH WAS THE REQUEST FOR A CITY PLANNING DETERMINATION THAT IT WAS INITIATED IN MAY. MYSELF, I TOOK A SITE TOUR AFTER THE DETERMINATION WAS ISSUED AND REVIEWED THE INFORMATION THAT WAS SUBMITTED IN THE APPEAL AND EVALUATED THE POTENTIAL TO ISSUE A NEW DETERMINATION.
AND DID YOU GIVE THE APPELLANT THE OPPORTUNITY TO POSSIBLY VIEW THE CUP AS POSSIBLY SATISFYING THOSE NEEDS AND SOME OF THE ISSUES AT HAND? WE DID NOT HAVE DETAILED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE CUP AND THE PROCESS WITH THE APPLICANT.
FOR THE RECORD, JEFF MURPHY, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR.
YES, I PERSONALLY HAD A NUMBER OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS REPRESENTATIVES REGARDING WHAT THE WHAT TO USE PERMIT PROCESS IS, WHAT'S IT ENTAIL, WHY WE WERE REQUIRING IT, WHY WE WERE LOOKING AT THE SOLUTION THAT WE WERE FINDING IN ORDER TO KEEP A LOT OF THE ACTIVITIES THEY WERE PURSUING WAS TO QUALIFY AS FAIR GROUNDS.
SO WE NEVER SAID NO, WE COULDN'T DO IT.
[00:45:05]
SO THOSE CONVERSATIONS WERE HAD.YEAH, I GUESS I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED.
AND I'M WONDERING IF THROUGH THE CUP PROCESS, IF THAT WAS NECESSARY OR NOT, IF YOU CHOSE TO DO SO.
REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION.
THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER MEENES.
EXCUSE ME. COMISSIONER MERZ IN QUESTIONING THE APPLICANT, RIGHT? TIME? YES. YEAH.
SO I THINK SOMETHING IN ONE OF THE PARTS I MENTIONED, EXPARTE WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT THE APPLICANT KNOW A CUP IS REQUIRED THAT THE LANDOWNER CONSENT.
BASICALLY, STAFF KNEW THAT ISSUANCE OF CUP WAS IMPOSSIBLE FINANCIALLY POSSIBLE.
ONE IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT GETTING THE APPLICANT THE PROPERTY ON ITS SIGNATURE.
WHAT MAKES THEM THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT? AND IN ADDITION, THIS IS HE'S ONLY ON A LEASE.
SO IT WOULD BE FINANCIALLY IMPOSSIBLE OR NOT IMPOSSIBLE INFEASIBLE TO CONTINUE AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS IN PROCESS OF FULL CP AFTER PROCESS THROUGH THE CITY AND SEE WHAT AD CONDITIONS AFTER THAT HAVE TO PROCESS THROUGH THE COASTAL COMMISSION.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 18 MONTHS, A TWO YEAR PROCESS ALONG WITH ALL THE COSTS.
IT'S JUST NOT FINANCIALLY POSSIBLE.
HE'S STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE AGRICULTURALLY NOW.
I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT KIND OF QUICKLY AS YOU'RE SPEAKING TO SLOW DOWN AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENTS, YOU MENTIONED THE CONCERN ABOUT THE LANDOWNER STILL NOT GIVING CONSENT.
COULD YOU I MEAN, YOU SAID THAT KIND OF QUICKLY.
I DIDN'T COME WITH YOU. WELL, YEAH, THEY HAVE.
SINCE THE LAND IS OWNED BY SD GINA.
SD, GINA WOULD HAVE TO SIGN THE APPLICATION WHERE YOU DON'T.
WE'RE NOT SURE THEY'D EVEN BE ONE TO SIGN THE APPLICATION.
THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IT'S THE COST OF PROCESSING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
YOU KNOW, SHE'S STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE AGRICULTURALLY NOW.
THAT'S WHY SHE HAS THESE LITTLE ALL THESE LITTLE ANCILLARY USES.
THEN YOU ADD THE COST OF $100,000 MINIMUM PROCESSING A CFP THROUGH THE CITY AND COASTAL.
THEN ON TOP OF THAT, ALL THE IMPROVEMENT COSTS.
THE CITY OF ATTACK ON THE TOP FOR THAT.
AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, YOU SAID, HEY, WE'RE SELLING THE LAND NEXT YEAR.
FOR COMMERCIAL USE, YOU HAVE TO GET OFF.
IT'S JUST NOT FINANCIALLY POSSIBLE FROM THE PROCESS OF CFP.
ALL WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT IS THE BOUNCE HOUSES IN THE CHILDREN'S STAGE.
GO AHEAD, MR. STRONG. JUST TWO POINTS OF DISTINCTION.
THE STAGE THAT IS SHOWN IN THOSE IMAGES.
WELL, THERE'S TWO THINGS WITH THE ZONING CODE AND BUILDING CODE.
SO LIKE I SAID EARLIER, WE WERE LIMITED TO THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED AT THAT TIME AND AT THAT TIME STAGES OR MUSIC THEATER PRODUCTIONS, ANYTHING OF ANY SIZE WOULD BE PERMITTED UNDER THAT DETERMINATION.
THERE ARE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS ON EXEMPTIONS OR DEDICATIONS OR IMPROVEMENT REQUIREMENTS, AND TYPICALLY THOSE HAVE TO HAVE SOME ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY TO THE INSENSITIVE USE PROPOSED.
SO AT THIS TIME, WE HAVEN'T EVALUATED WHAT THAT MIGHT BE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER FACTOR OF CONSIDERATION.
AND CHAIR STINE, IF I COULD MAKE TWO THINGS FOR THE RECORD.
THE FIRST IS MR. HOUSE SAID HE WAS REQUESTING THE ITEMS TO BE MOVED FROM TABLE TWO TO TABLE THREE.
I BELIEVE IT WAS THE INVERSE MOVING FROM TABLE THREE TO TABLE TWO BY RIGHT.
[00:50:05]
I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT.YOU GAVE US, I THINK, FOUR ITEMS THAT WERE STILL IN DISPUTE.
AND WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THE APPELLANT THAT THERE ARE ONLY TWO CURRENTLY THAT HE'S DISPUTING AND THE ONES THE BOUNCE HOUSES AND THE OTHER CHILDREN STAGE, THOSE ARE THE ONLY ISSUES I'M HEARING.
SO WE'VE KIND OF NARROWED THE FIELD, HAVE WE NOT? BASED ON THEIR TESTIMONY, I WOULD COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION.
THE APPEAL THAT WAS FILED HAD THOSE ADDITIONAL ITEMS, BUT I'D DEFER TO THEM IF THEY WANT TO CLARIFY.
YEAH. MR. UKEGAWA, WOULD YOU PLEASE COME BACK? I WANT TO GET CLARIFICATION ON THIS.
DID I HEAR YOU CORRECTLY THAT THE ONLY ITEMS THAT YOU ARE CONTESTING, MEANING THAT YOU SAY YOU THINK YOU CAN DO THEM AS A MATTER OF RIGHT AND NOT WITH THE CUP ARE, THE BOUNCE HOUSES AND THE CHILDREN'S STAGE.
DID I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY? SIR.
SEASONAL BOUNCE HOUSES THAT ARE ONLY OPEN WHEN WE CAN GROW THE CORN REALLY TALL TO TO HIDE THEM.
NO, I THOUGHT I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY ALLOWED US TO PLAY THE GAMES.
THEY'RE NOT GAMES. THAT'S DIFFERENT, SIR.
I'M TRYING TO GET A SENSE ON WHETHER YOU'RE WAIVING ANY CLAIM TO THOSE AS A MATTER OF RIGHT.
CAN YOU HELP CLARIFY? I GUESS, YEAH. I JUST DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A BIG DEAL.
WE DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WOULD REALLY CARE ABOUT THAT.
BUT IF IT'S A BIG DEAL TO THE STAFF, WE CAN TELL THEM THE GRINCH STOLE THEM.
PEOPLE PLAY CORNHOLE ON THE SIDEWALK, YOU KNOW, WAITING FOR THEIR CARS FOR VALET PARKING.
YOU ARE SEEKING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE CHILDREN'S FACE PAINTING, RIGHT? NO, YOU'RE NOT.
I'D LIKE THE FREE GAMES, THE BOUNCE HOUSES AND THE CHILDREN'S STAGE.
YOU HAD TWO ITEMS WHICH WERE BOUNCE HOUSES.
I JUST WANT CLARIFICATION, SIR.
BOUNCE HOUSES AND CHILDREN'S STAGE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES.
THANK YOU. THAT'S JUST ONE OF THAT CLARIFICATION.
CHAIRMAN STEIN, IF I COULD DEFER YOUR COUNCIL.
SO WHAT WE'RE HEARING TODAY IS WHAT THE APPELLANT WE'RE CONSIDERING WHAT HE HAS PROPOSED, AND NOW WE'RE CHANGING THIS MIDSTREAM BASED ON THIS TESTIMONY.
COULD YOU HELP US OUT? THIS IS REALLY JUST CLARIFICATION.
THIS IS ALL IN THE STAFF REPORT.
THEY DID APPEAL THE BOUNCE HOUSE AND THEY DID APPEAL THE STAGE.
SO ALL OF THOSE ITEMS ARE IN THE STAFF REPORT AS BEING ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION, FOR APPEAL.
I THINK WHAT STINE WAS LOOKING FOR WAS CLARIFICATION WHEN MR. UKEGAWA SAID HE DID NOT WANT CERTAIN ITEMS AND I THINK MR. STINE, CHAIR STINE WAS JUST TRYING TO GET CLARIFICATION OF WHAT IS ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW.
THOSE FOUR THINGS ARE THE SUBJECT OF THE APPEAL.
SO INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSES, GAMES AND FACE PAINTING STAGE AND SHADE STRUCTURES.
WHAT THEY ARE NOW SAYING IS THAT THEY'RE WITHDRAWING THE FACE PAINTING.
OKAY. SO THAT WE'RE ALL CLEAR HERE WHAT I'M GETTING.
SO WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING AND MAKING THE DECISION ON.
I'M HEARING FOUR ITEMS BOUNCE HOUSES, CHILDREN'S STAGE FREE GAMES AND SHADE STRUCTURE.
AND THE REST OF THE ITEMS AND ANYTHING ELSE WAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.
DO I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY? WE THOUGHT SHADE STRUCTURES WERE APPROVED? THEY'RE NOT TENTS, JUST SHADE.
BUT THAT WASN'T AN ISSUE. SO THAT'S PART OF YOUR APPEAL? NO, IT'S NOT AT ALL.
MY UNDERSTANDING FOR ERIC'S LETTER THAT SHADE STRUCTURES WERE ALLOWED.
WHAT THEY REQUESTED IN THERE IS SHADE STRUCTURES WHICH ARE MORE PERMANENT IN NATURE.
[00:55:05]
IT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT AREA OF DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN US.WHAT REALLY IS THERE IS WHAT IS THE USE THAT THEY ARE THERE FOR.
[INAUDIBLE] OKAY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE.
OK MR. HOWE DID YOU WANT THE NUANCE BEING? IS IT A PERMANENT STRUCTURE OR A TEMPORARY STRUCTURE? SO WE'RE GOING TO GET CONVOLUTED HERE UNLESS WE CLARIFICATION.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PERMANENT SHADE STRUCTURE, LIKE A BUILDING WITH FOUR SIDES.
YEAH, WE'RE TALKING MORE OR LESS TEMPORARY.
OKAY. WE JUST HAVE THEM FOR THE PEOPLE THAT COME, YOU KNOW, THEY COME PICK STRAWBERRIES.
SOME OF THE PEOPLE GET TIRED AND WANT TO SIT DOWN, GET OUT OF THE SUN.
OKAY. AND THEN AS I UNDERSTAND, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
MR. HARDY, STAFF HAS NO OBJECTION TO TEMPORARY SHADE STRUCTURE.
AND CHAIR STEIN, IF I PLEASE CAN ALSO CLARIFY, THE IMAGE THAT WAS SHOWED THAT WAS REPRESENTED AS A STAGE WOULD ALSO BE MORE PERCEIVED AS LIKE A DECK FOR THE PURPOSES OF OUR LAND USE AUTHORITY OF ACCESSORY BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES.
SO THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT IT COULD BE A LOT LARGER THAN THAT.
SO TO QUALIFY THIS DISCUSSION ON WHAT THE APPELLANT HAD REQUESTED, DETERMINATION ON WHICH THE CITY PLANNER DECIDED WAS TO NOT ALLOW MUSICAL STAGES OR PERFORMANCE STAGES, WHAT WAS SHOWN ON THAT SCREEN IS LIKE A DECK WHERE SOMEONE COULD STAND OR SIT OR PLAY A SONG.
THAT'S NOT THE, I GUESS, FOCUS OF WHAT THIS APPEAL MATTER SHOULD BE ON.
IT'S MORE ABOUT THE ABSOLUTE TERM OF ANY TYPE OF MUSICAL STAGE OR PERFORMANCE STAGE.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SABELLICO? MR. LARTEY, COULD YOU PULL UP THE SLIDE THAT HAD THE ITEMS FOR APPEAL? THAT WAS IT WAS LIKE THE TABLE AND YOU CIRCLED AND YOU HAD RED BOXES AROUND THE AREAS OF APPEAL.
THANK YOU. SO, YES, THIS THE STAGE INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSES, THE GAMES.
AND I DO SEE THE FACE PAINTING IN THE RED CIRCLE.
SO THAT IS OFFICIALLY PART OF THE APPEAL, DESPITE THE APPELLANTS STATING THAT THEY'RE OKAY WITH WITHDRAWING, THAT IT WAS PART OF THE WRITTEN APPEAL AND PART. OK AND ALSO THE SHADE STRUCTURES WHICH ARE TABLE, TWO.
I JUST WANTED TO SEE THAT AGAIN.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER STINE. I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT WE'RE KIND OF GETTING STUCK IN THE WEEDS ON WHAT'S WHAT'S WHAT AS PLAYING COMMISSIONER AND PERSON WHO'S DEALT WITH, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS OVER MY CAREER.
I THINK THE OVERARCHING PRINCIPLE IS, AS MR. LOWRY SAID, THE REASON FOR ECP IS SITE SPECIFIC IMPACTS.
RIGHT. AND SO, I MEAN, I'D JUST I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THERE'S A WAY YOU COULD MOVE BEYOND THIS PARSING OF WORDS OVER THESE LITTLE THINGS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS IMPACT.
AND THAT'S REALLY PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.
SO YEAH. IS THERE A QUESTION IN THERE FOR STAFF COMMISSIONER MERZ? OK? COMMISSIONER LUNA.
I THINK MY CONCERN, COMMISSIONER MERZ, IS THAT THE APPELLANT HERE SPECIFICALLY ASKED TO HAVE SPECIFIC USES CONSIDERED BY RIGHT THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
HE HAS ASKED FOR INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSES, GAMES AND FACE PAINTING STAGE AND MUSICAL PERFORMANCE.
AND THEN THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ON STAGE STRUCTURE, SHADE STRUCTURES.
CITY PLANNER HAS STATED PUBLICLY THAT'S A NON ISSUE, CORRECT? YES. OKAY.
[01:00:05]
THINK WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT USE IS WE'RE DISCUSSING.IF WE DON'T, THEN WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS TO GO FOR CONDITIONAL USE, PERMIT OR NOT? SO I'M SORRY THAT WE'RE DELIBERATING ON THEM, BUT.
MR. KEMP HAS SCHOOLED US VERY WELL HERE AND THIS IS WHAT THE APPELLANT IS REQUESTING.
SO I AM GOING TO REVIEW WHAT THE APPELLANT IS REQUESTING.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
THANK YOU. AND THEN THERE'S JUST ONE, ONE OR TWO THINGS I'D LIKE TO SAY.
AND SOME OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE BY RIGHT.
IF A USE IS NOT LISTED, IT'S DEEMED NOT TO BE ALLOWED.
SO WHAT THE CITY PLANNER WAS DOING IN TRYING TO EVALUATE THE APPELLANTS REQUEST WAS TO TRY TO FIND A USE THAT'S LISTED ON THE TABLE THAT HE COULD POINT TO SAY IT'S THIS.
AND SO WHERE WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF.
TONIGHT IS THE APPELLANT IS SAYING THE USE HERE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED TO BE RECREATIONAL FACILITIES.
AND STAFF HAS SAID THE ONLY USE I CAN FIND THAT IS LIKE THIS IS FAIR GROUNDS.
AND FAIR GROUNDS CALLS FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
SO I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY ACCURATE DEPICTION OF WHAT'S AT STAKE.
THANK YOU SO THAT BRINGS UP THE POINT OF NO DEFINITION FOR FAIR GROUNDS.
IS THAT CORRECT? WE DON'T HAVE A CLEAR DEFINITION IN OUR CONDITIONAL USE IN OUR.
SO WHEN THAT IS THE CASE, YOU GO TO WHAT THE COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT A FAIR GROUND IS.
OKAY. SO, MR. LARDY, I GUESS WHAT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF A FAIR GROUNDS? I THINK THE FOCUS OF THE DETERMINATION WAS KIND OF THE OTHER WAY.
I GUESS IT WAS FIRST, WHAT IS ACCESSORY AND DEEMED SUBSTANTIALLY CONSISTENT WITH AGRICULTURE? IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT FAIRGROUNDS AND AGRICULTURAL TOURISM ARE BOTH NOT DEFINED IN THE CODE AND OUTLINED.
BUT AS I SAID, IT'S AN IMPERFECT PROCESS AND THE CODE DOES NOT DEFINE EVERYTHING.
SO WE LOOKED AT WHAT IS THE MOST APPLICABLE DEFINITION, AND THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE DETERMINATION.
IT'S REALLY AN ALL OR NOTHING TYPE EVALUATION.
OKAY. WELL, LET ME JUST BACK UP A MINUTE AND.
LET YOU KNOW WHAT MY DEFINITION OF FAIRGROUNDS IS.
IT'S A PUBLIC PROPERTY OWNED BY THE COMMUNITY OR CITY.
DEL MAR FAIRGROUNDS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF COUNTY PROPERTY THAT HAS YEAR ROUND ACTIVITIES.
MY UNDERSTANDING, AND THE OWNERS PRESENTED QUITE CLEARLY THAT THEY'RE SEASONAL IN THE WAY THAT THEY UTILIZE THEIR AGRICULTURE AND THE OPEN AREAS OF EVENTS.
INSTEAD OF DEEMING IT THIS ONE USE, WOULD THESE USES BE MORE ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED IF THEY WERE SPECIAL EVENT PERMITTED USES? AND COULD THEY BE ESPECIALLY THE BOUNCY HOUSES? THAT SEEMS TO BE A BIG DRAW AND OBVIOUSLY A LIFESAVER DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN CHILDREN WERE COOPED UP IN THEIR HOMES AND COULDN'T GET OUT.
YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PARENTS CAME FROM MILES AROUND TO COME AND GO TO THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS.
SO I WAS VERY CONCERNED THAT THERE WASN'T A DEFINITION FOR FAIR GROUNDS IN OUR CODE.
AND I REALLY FEEL THAT MOST OF THESE ARE SEASONAL USES, NOT YEAR ROUND USES, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT HAVING THE FAIR AND THEN A MONSTER TRUCK EVENT AND THEN A HOME SHOW ALL YEAR ROUND, ALL THE TIME.
SO I'M CONCERNED THAT DEFINITION IS NOT QUITE ACCURATE, BUT I WANT TO FIND A COMPROMISE.
AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF THESE CAN BE.
[01:05:02]
HOPEFULLY SPECIAL USE PERMITS BECAUSE THEY ARE TEMPORARY.I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT. I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT WE'RE GETTING INTO DELIBERATIONS AND WE HAVEN'T HAD THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, AND I THINK IT'D BE A GOOD TIME FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. SO, MADAM CLERK, I ASSUME WE HAVE SOME SPEAKER SLIPS.
YES, WE DO. HOW MANY DO WE HAVE? 13. 13.
ALL RIGHT. AND ACCORDING TO OUR RULES, WE ALLOW 3 MINUTES FOR EACH.
I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIR, CAN WE ACCEPT ONE MORE? DID YOU SUBMITTED AT THE TIME, SIR? AS A FIRST TIMER, I CAME IN RIGHT WHEN WE STARTED, SO I'M SORRY.
THERE WAS A THERE WAS A CUT OFF THERE, SIR.
I'M SORRY THERE WAS A CUT OFF THERE, SO GO AHEAD.
MADAM CLERK, WOULD YOU GO AHEAD AND CALL THE FIRST PUBLIC SPEAKER, PLEASE? MICHAEL SCHUMACHER, PLEASE COME TO THE PODIUM.
YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.
GOOD EVENING, PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
MICHAEL SCHUMACHER CITY OF CARLSBAD, RESIDENT PLANNING COMMISSIONERS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
BEING A COMMISSIONER, I DON'T NECESSARILY ENVY YOU IN YOUR TASK TONIGHT.
BUT IT IS JUST THAT IT'S STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND IT'S AN OPINION.
SO I APPRECIATE THE LINE OF QUESTIONS THAT I'M HEARING SO FAR TONIGHT.
BUT AS YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THE ABILITY TO ADD WEIGHT TO CERTAIN ASPECTS THAT PERHAPS STAFF DIDN'T INCLUDE OR DIDN'T WEIGH VERY HEAVILY, SUCH AS THE GENERAL PLAN.
AND IT SAYS WILL NOT MAY CARLSBAD WILL.
I GUESS WE'RE PARSING WORDS AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, MR. MERZ IS CORRECT PARSING WORDS TO DETERMINE IF A BOUNCE HOUSE, A CHILDREN'S FACE PAINTING CORNHOLE IS CONSIDERED ALLOWABLE ANCILLARY USES FOR THE PRIMARY USE.
AND I THINK. WE DON'T HAVE TO READ BOOKS TO FIGURE OUT THAT CODE ORDINANCES.
IT'S OBVIOUS THAT IT'S AN ANCILLARY USE.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT? YOU WOULD SAY, WE'RE GOING TO THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS, OR YOU MIGHT SAY WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE PUMPKIN PATCH.
YOU MIGHT EVEN SAY WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE CORN MAZE.
BUT YOU WOULDN'T SAY, LET'S GO TO THE FACE PAINTING PLACE ON A STAGE.
YOU WOULDN'T SAY, LET'S GO TO THE BOUNCY PLACE.
AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY.
I'M JUST SAYING IT'S OBVIOUSLY AN ANCILLARY USE AND IT.
THE FACT THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND PARSING THESE WORDS, IT'S A LITTLE BIT.
IT'S INTERESTING. SO WE HEARD STAFF SAY THAT ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS THE RELATIONSHIP.
THE RELATIONSHIP TO AGRICULTURE IS UNCLEAR.
SO. YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE LEARNED ANYTHING THROUGH COVID, IT'S THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BE OUTSIDE MORE, MORE HIKING, MORE CAMPING, MORE GOING TO THE FLOWER FIELDS AND THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN OUTDOOR RESTAURANTS RIGHT THERE SPILLING OUT INTO THE SIDEWALKS.
PEOPLE APPARENTLY LIKE TO EAT THEIR MEALS ON SIDEWALKS.
CAN YOU WRAP IT UP, SIR? WELL, I'VE GOT A LOT MORE TO SAY.
BUT IN ANY CASE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE I REALLY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THE THE FACE PAINTING.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE CORNHOLE, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HERE WHO'S PLAYED CORNHOLE BEEN IN A RESTAURANT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE THEY HAVE IT, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S CONFUSED THAT THEY'RE AT A FAIRGROUND.
SO MY REQUEST IS THAT YOU UPHOLD THE APPEAL.
ALL RIGHT, MAKE SURE I DIDNT GET LEFT OUT.
OKAY. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS MIKE CURTIN.
GIVE US YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME, PLEASE.
CURTIN. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS.
[01:10:04]
MY NAME IS MIKE CURTIN. AS I SAID, A LONG TIME CARLSBAD RESIDENT AND CURRENT CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR.I WANT TO SEGMENT MY COMMENTS INTO THREE AREAS TONIGHT.
SECOND, JIMMY UKEGAWA IN PERSON.
AND THIRD, THE ISSUE AT HAND WITH REGARD TO COASTAL AG.
I GREW UP NEXT DOOR TO ANOTHER JAPANESE FARMING FAMILY, THE COYOTES.
AND SO BY THAT INTIMATE EXPOSURE TO FARMING, I'VE SEEN IT ALL MY LIFE AND THAT FOLKS, THERE'S NO MORE DIFFICULT BUSINESS OUT THERE THAN FARMING.
SO ANYTHING THAT WE COULD DO TO MITIGATE THE RISK THAT HE FACES CERTAINLY SUPPORTS COASTAL AG CITY COUNCIL, HAS A STATED PLAN IN PLACE TO PROTECT AND ENHANCE WHAT REMAINS OF COASTAL AGRICULTURE.
AND THE CARLSBAD STRAWBERRY FIELDS ARE ALMOST THE LAST VESTIGE OF LEFT.
I'VE KNOWN JIMMY SINCE WE WERE KIDS AND I HONESTLY KNOW OF NO MORE HONORABLE PERSON OUT THERE.
HE HAS ALWAYS LOOKED FOR WAYS TO HELP THE COMMUNITY IN WHICH HE RESIDES AND WAS AN EXCEPTIONALLY DESERVING RECIPIENT OF THE CARLSBAD CITIZEN OF THE YEAR RECOGNITION LAST YEAR. AS FAR AS THE ISSUE AT HAND, IT'S INCONCEIVABLE TO ME THAT THE CITY DECIDED TO AGGRESSIVELY PURSUE THE BUSINESS PRACTICES OF THE CARLSBAD STRAWBERRY FIELDS.
ON THE BASIS OF ONE PHONED IN COMPLAINT ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE POLICY CITY POLICY TO SUPPORT AG.
DURING THE PANDEMIC, THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS WERE A GODSEND TO FAMILIES WHO HAD BEEN COOPED UP IN QUARANTINE NOT ONLY FROM CARLSBAD, BUT FROM ALL OVER SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, NEVADA AND EVEN ARIZONA, BECAUSE IT WAS ONE OF THE FEW PLACES THAT FAMILIES COULD GO TO DO SOMETHING TOGETHER BY RIGHT AND WITHOUT.
FOR FURTHER PERMITTING, THIS OPERATION IS ALLOWED BOTH PASSIVE AND ACTIVE RECREATION.
I URGE THE COMMISSION TO UPHOLD THE APPEAL.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CURTIN. NEXT SPEAKER IS KERRY SHENKMAN.
GIVE US YOUR NAME, PLEASE, MA'AM.
YES, MY NAME IS KERRY SIEGMUND SICKMANN AND I PRESIDE AT 5239 EL ARBOL, AND I'M A FORMER PLANNING COMMISSIONER, SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH TONIGHT.
BUT I WAS ALSO A PLANNING COMMISSIONER DURING THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE.
I KNOW WHAT THE GENERAL PLAN SAID.
I KNOW THE INTENTION OF THE GENERAL PLAN.
AND WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IS NOT WHAT THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE.
EXPLAINED ABOUT THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE CITY ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO PUSH THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS OUT OF CARLSBAD WITH WHAT THEY'RE DOING BY PUSHING FOR THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS TO BE ZONED AS A FAIR GROUND.
AND FROM OUR CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE.
CHAPTER 21.36PU PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE.
IT STATES A USE SIMILAR TO THOSE LISTED IN TABLE A, WHICH WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE PRESENTATION TABLE A, WHICH YOU DIDN'T SEE MAY BE PERMITTED IF THE CITY PLANNER DETERMINES SUCH SIMILAR USES FALL WITHIN THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE ZONE AND IS SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO THE SPECIFIED PERMITTED USES.
SO IF YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT TABLE A, THE CITY PLANNER HAS CHOSEN FAIRGROUNDS FOR THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS, A USE IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS HAZARDOUS USE FACILITIES, STADIUMS OR AIRPORTS.
SO INSTEAD OF CHOOSING ONE OF THOSE THE BY RIGHT USE OF RECREATIONAL FACILITIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, PASSIVE OR ACTIVE IS I THINK A USE MOST SIMILAR TO A SEASONAL FESTIVAL WHICH IS ALSO IN THE GENERAL
[01:15:04]
PLAN. SO AS APPROVED AND SUPPORTED IN THE GENERAL PLAN.THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THIS USE IS.
SO PLEASE SUPPORT OUR FLOWER FIELDS AND OUR FLOWER FIELDS FESTIVALS AND DON'T APPROVE THIS.
WHAT THE CITY IS TRYING TO DO TO THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS.
THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THEM.
AND ALSO, I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT EVERY SINGLE ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PARK IN THE CITY OF CARLSBAD ALLOWS BOUNCY HOUSES AND PEOPLE WHO CALL TO HAVE THE BOUNCY HOUSES DON'T HAVE TO GET A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE, IS TOM SIEKMANN.
I'VE BEEN LIVING WITHIN THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS FOR SINCE 1995.
AND. WELL, I MEAN, TO ME, THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS AND THE CORN MAZE ARE ICONIC IN CARLSBAD. IF YOU GO TO ORANGE COUNTY, CAN YOU FIND ORANGE GROVES ANYMORE? THEY'RE GONE. THE AGRICULTURAL PART GETS PUSHED OUT.
PUSHED OUT. AND WE'VE GOT THE BEAUTIFUL STRAWBERRY FIELDS CORN MAZE.
I'M JUST AMAZED PEOPLE TRY TO PUSH JIMMY OUT.
CITIZENS OF THE YEAR LAST YEAR.
YOU'VE HEARD HOW MUCH MONEY HE GIVES FROM HIS BUSINESS TO THE CHARITIES ORGANIZATIONS.
I DON'T SEE ANY OF THAT STUFF GOING ON.
I SEE FAMILIES COMING TO THESE FESTIVALS IN THE FALL.
THEY COME OUT FOR CORN MAIZE AND PUMPKINS, AND DURING THE YEAR THEY'RE OUT FOR STRAWBERRIES.
IT'S TOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.
AND HERE'S A GUY WHO'S GIVING HIS LIFE TO GIVE A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE, AS THEY SAID, AGRICULTURAL TOURISM, GETTING PEOPLE FROM THE CITY OUT TO SEE STRAWBERRY FIELDS AND CORN FIELDS.
I MEAN, I GREW UP IN CORNFIELDS IN THE MIDWEST.
I CAME HERE, I SAID, WOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S CORNFIELDS.
LET'S GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SEE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND EXPERIENCE THOSE THINGS.
QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. AND THEY COME OUT AND HAVE FUN AT THAT IT.
YOU'VE HEARD IT WOULD KICK HIM OUT RIGHT AWAY.
SO LET'S SUPPORT JIMMY AND LET'S SUPPORT THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS, CORN FIELDS, CORN MAIZE.
AND THAT CARLSBAD BE AN ENJOYABLE CITY, NOT SOMETHING THAT GETS SQUISHED DOWN BECAUSE MAYBE IT WASN'T WHAT SOMEBODY ONE PERSON WANTED. WE LOVE IT.
I RESIDE AT 4566 HORIZON DRIVE.
I'M PROBABLY OLDER THAN SOME OF YOU SITTING ON THE DAIS.
SORRY. THE REASON FOR ME BEING HERE TODAY IS MY HOUSE OVERLOOKS.
I'M ONE OF THOSE PRIVILEGED ONES, AND I'VE WORKED REALLY HARD TO BE WHERE I AM.
[01:20:09]
I ALSO STAND BEFORE YOU AS A RESIDENT.TO TELL YOU THAT I THINK THIS IS KIND OF A WASTE OF TIME.
I'VE READ A LOT OF STAFF REPORTS.
I RAN FOR COUNCIL FOUR TIMES AND NO, I'M NOT RUNNING FOR ELECTION.
BUT WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU IS IN MY STAFF TIME IN READING THOSE DOCUMENTS, I'VE NEVER NOT SEEN A HISTORICAL BACKGROUND GIVEN.
JIMMY IS ONE OF THE MOST CARING AND GIVING INDIVIDUALS I HAVE MET.
HE HAS A GENTLE AND EMULATES SPIRIT THROUGHOUT HIS DAY.
NEVER IS THERE A DAY THAT HE DOESN'T GO BACK AND THINK, WHAT CAN I DO FOR THIS COMMUNITY? HOW CAN I GIVE BACK IN THE MIDST OF MARCH 2020? I'M JUST GOING TO READ YOU REALLY QUICK BECAUSE I'M LIMITED ON TIME.
WHEN THE WORLD, THE COUNTRY, OUR COUNTY AND OUR STATE CLOSED ITS DOOR TO UNPRECEDENTED EMERGENCY HEALTH CRISIS, THIS GENTLEMAN BEHIND ME CALLED ME AND SAID, LET'S GIVE BACK.
HOW CAN WE DO THIS? AND HE STARTED GIVING AWAY FRESH PRODUCE.
HE FED PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT NEEDED TO BE FED.
HE ALSO GIVES OPPORTUNITIES FOR EDUCATIONAL.
VOCATION. THAT MEANS HE'S PRODUCING AND INSPIRING YOUNG PEOPLE TO BE FARMERS.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THAT HAS VALUE.
I ASK YOU TODAY TO DO THE RIGHT THING, REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY, WHO'S IN THIS ROOM, AND NOT JUST THAT ONE PERSON THAT CALLED AND MADE A COMPLAINT THAT MAY HAVE NOT HAD THE RIGHT INFORMATION.
NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE. JOSH CANTOR.
I'M SORRY. WOULD YOU SPELL IT IS IT CANTOR? YES. CANTOR.
THANK YOU, SIR. I'M THE OWNER OPERATOR OF CALIFORNIA WATERSPORTS AND THE CARLSBAD LAGOON.
I AM ALSO THE OWNER OPERATOR OF THE BOUNCES AND THE BOUNCE LAND.
SO THANK YOU TO A LOT OF YOU GUYS WHO ARE HERE TO SUPPORT US.
APPRECIATE IT. SO I TOOK OVER THE SNUG HARBOR OF CALIFORNIA WATERSPORTS ABOUT 19 YEARS AGO.
IN THAT TIME, I'VE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE CITY, WITH THE CARLSBAD PD PARKS AND REC.
WE'VE ABLE TO TURN THE LAGOON THERE INTO SOMETHING THAT I HOPE CARLSBAD'S PROUD OF.
THE BIGGEST GROWTH WE'VE SEEN IS WITH OUR LOCAL BUSINESS.
WHEN I TOOK IT OVER, IT WAS A LITTLE KIND OF RUNDOWN.
I MET JIMMY THROUGH THE LAGOON FOUNDATION, AND OVER THE LAST DECADE, I'VE BECOME FRIENDS WITH HIM.
AND ABOUT THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, WITH MY KIDS BEING FIVE AND SIX AND LOVING TO GO PICK STRAWBERRIES, WE REALIZED THAT WAS A PLACE THAT WAS FUN.
WE LOVED DOING IT AND HAD A CONVERSATION WITH JIMMY ABOUT WHAT HE WAS DOING WITH KIND OF OFFSETTING SOME OF THE PROBLEMS HE WAS HAVING WITH JUST BEING STRAIGHT AGRICULTURE WITH HIS DIFFERENT STUFF AND MY BACKGROUND BEING A BUSINESS MAJOR, KNOWING A LOT ABOUT RUNNING FACILITIES FOR FAMILIES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I WAS LIKE, WELL, WHAT ABOUT BOUNCE HOUSES? AND HIS RESPONSE WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HE'S A FARMER.
I WAS LIKE, WELL, I'M NOT LIKE, I PROVIDE FUN.
THAT'S WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING.
AND SO WE CHATTED AND WAS LIKE, HEY, WELL, LET ME DO IT.
AND SO WE PUT A FACILITY THAT'S UNMATCHED.
I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND A BETTER FACILITY.
I'VE GOT 15,000 SQUARE FEET OF TURF THAT'S NOT CHEAP PUT DOWN ON THE FIELD SO THAT IT'S A NICE PLACE FOR KIDS TO CRAWL AROUND, MOTHERS TO FEED THEIR KIDS AND EVERYTHING.
WE HAVE PROVIDED AN AREA THAT'S SAFE.
[01:25:04]
THAT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO GET OUTSIDE, HAVE FUN IN A WAY THAT STILL REPRESENTS CARLSBAD.AND SO, YOU KNOW, AND KIND OF IN CONCLUSION.
YOU KNOW. WE'VE WORKED WITH THE CITY TO PROVIDE A PLACE THAT WE HOPE YOU'RE PROUD OF.
HELLO, COUNCIL. MY NAME IS CAITLIN ELLIS.
ORIGINALLY, I KNEW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.
AND WHAT I'VE BECOME MORE CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING FROM FROM ONE COMPLAINT, ONE PHONE CALL, AND THAT CAN PROMPT THIS MUCH OF A CHANGE FROM ONE PHONE CALL.
THAT'S UP THERE, LIKE THAT'S BEEN THERE SINCE THEN.
AND I JUST SEE THIS AS THERE'S SO MUCH MORE AT STAKE HERE.
I'VE BEEN TAKING SOME NOTES AS I'VE BEEN HEARING PEOPLE TALK, BUT THERE'S SO MUCH MORE AT STAKE THAN FACE PAINTING AND A DEFINITION AND I ASK THE COUNCIL TO LOOK BEYOND THE DEFINITIONS THAT APPARENTLY MIGHT NOT EVEN REALLY EXIST AS FAR AS FAIR GROUND AND WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHERE THAT IS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE GOING ON HERE WITH COMMUNITY AND CARLSBAD.
AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN PROUD TO BE A RESIDENT OF CARLSBAD, AND I FEEL LIKE THERE'S MORE THAN JUST, YOU KNOW DOING THINGS AND MAKING MONEY. WE'RE IN LIKE WE HAVE OUR OWN LITTLE EDEN HERE, I FEEL LIKE AND I KNOW THAT LAND IS REALLY VALUABLE.
I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED AT THE PLANS FOR WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYTHING GETS PUSHED OUT BECAUSE THE CUP AND THE COST OF ALL OF THAT IS DEFINITELY JUST GOING TO WIPE THINGS OUT AND ERASE THINGS.
AND SO I ALSO THINK IT'S CONCERNING TO THE EARLIER ADDRESS.
THERE'S NO COMPLAINTS FROM CARPENTER CARLSBAD, NO COMPLAINTS FROM POLICE AND FROM TRAFFIC AND IF WE'RE REALLY USING THIS AS AN EXAMPLE TO SET SOME DEFINITIONS THAT DON'T EXIST, I THINK THAT IT SHOULD REQUIRE MORE INVOLVEMENT FROM THE COMMUNITY.
ACTUAL VOTING, A PROPOSITION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, LIKE THIS.
LIKE IT MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE TO ME THAT IT'S A SEASONAL FESTIVAL.
AND SO YEAH, I WOULD JUST REALLY ASK TO LOOK BEYOND DEFINITELY.
THANK YOU, MA'AM. NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.
OKAY. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS MIA UKEGAWA.
WILL YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME PLEASE? UKEGAWA AND I HAVE LIVED IN CARLSBAD SINCE I WAS BORN AND I'M NOT THAT OLD, BUT I ENJOY IT VERY MUCH. AND THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS, I LOVE IT.
I'VE LOVED IT SINCE I WAS BORN AGAIN.
AND I JUST REMEMBER I ALWAYS LOOK INTO PICTURES AND I WAS LIKE, HEY, THAT'S ME.
WHEN I WAS LIKE, I WAS THAT AGE AND I DID THAT AND I LOVED IT AND I STILL LOVE IT.
[01:30:02]
AND IT CREATES SO MANY MEMORIES THAT YOU CAN BE LIKE.THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS AGAIN.
THAT WE CAN HAVE THE STAGE AND THE BOUNCE HOUSES.
YEAH. I REALLY LOVE FOLLOWING THAT.
HI. THANKS, COMMISSIONERS, FOR ALLOWING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TONIGHT.
RODMAN. I LIVE AT 4009 LANG LANG CIRCLE UNIT D92008.
I'M HERE TODAY BECAUSE BY AFFECTING THE CARLSBAD STRAWBERRY FIELDS AND.
YOU ARE EFFECTIVELY SHUTTING DOWN A NONPROFIT.
AND THE REASON THAT I CAME TONIGHT.
WHAT WE DO WITH THAT MONEY IS WE TAKE IT BACK TO OUR FOUNDATION AND WE OFFSET ALL OF THE TEACHER SALARIES, THE COORDINATION OF THE SCHEDULING, THE CURRICULUM WRITERS.
WE SERVE 75 UNIQUE PRESCHOOL PLAYMATES EVERY SINGLE DAY, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, OVER 350 CAMPERS.
8500. SCHOOL FIELD TRIP KIDS CAME THROUGH LAST YEAR.
50,000 VISITORS AND A THOUSAND VOLUNTEERS.
ALL THAT GOES AWAY WHEN YOU AFFECT WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO IS HAVE IT SO THAT WE MAKE IT AFFORDABLE SO PEOPLE CAN ENJOY IT. WE BELIEVE THAT THE WATERSHED SHOULD BE USED RESPONSIBLY.
AND SHOULD HAVE PEOPLE ABLE TO.
NOT ONLY USE THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS, BUT AGUA ARIANDA AND LEARN ABOUT NATURE.
AND SO I URGE YOU TO LET HIM HAVE THE FACE PAINTING, FOR GOODNESS SAKES.
THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE.
HELLO, MY NAME IS HEATHER UKEGAWA.
UKEGAWA. I LIVE AT 1270 PLUM TREE ROAD AND JIMMY UKEGAWA IS MY HUSBAND.
AND LET ME TELL YOU, ONE OF HIS FAVORITE THINGS TO DO ON A WEEKEND MORNING IS GO TO THE FARM AND WATCH JUST EVERYBODY'S FACES LIGHT UP AS THEY SEE THESE ENORMOUS PUMPKINS THAT HE'S GROWN, THE CORN MAZES, THE FLOWERS.
IT'S REALLY SOME IT'S REALLY QUITE A SIGHT.
AND WHEN YOU WALK ON THE PROPERTY, WHICH I HOPE YOU ALL DO, TAKE THE TIME TO COME AND CHECK IT OUT, YOU REALLY GET A FEELING THAT YOU'RE IN TUNE WITH NATURE.
THERE'S FLOWERS, THERE'S PUMPKINS.
THERE'S CORN. EVERYTHING'S HEALTHY AND VIBRANT AND GROWING.
IT'S VERY MUCH DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE FEELING YOU GET WHEN YOU GO TO THE DEL MAR FAIR.
THE DEL MAR FAIR THINGS ARE NOISY.
YOU HAVE RIDES GOING ON THAT ARE CLANKY.
THERE'S ALL SORTS OF SMELLS AND SOUNDS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE.
AND THIS IS NOT THE INTENTION OF THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS.
THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS IS THE INTENTION IS FARMING.
IT COMES FROM THE SOIL, NOT A GROCERY STORE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
[01:35:09]
THIS IS A SMALL BUSINESS THAT HELPS BENEFIT THE CITY.THEY SPEND MORE MONEY IN OUR RESTAURANTS, THEY COME TO THE HOTELS AND THEY'RE SPENDING MORE MONEY.
THAT BRINGS US MORE OPPORTUNITIES BECOME BETTER AND BETTER.
WE ARE ABLE TO HAVE ACTIVITIES LIKE THIS.
IT JUST BRINGS THE PEOPLE TOGETHER AND IT'S GOOD FOR THE CITY.
WE NEED TO SUPPORT THESE SMALL BUSINESSES AND REMEMBER THAT IT'S NOT A BURDEN THAT THEY'RE DOING.
AND YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PHOTOS, YOU CAN HEAR FROM THE STORIES OF CHILDREN.
I BRING MY NIECE AND NEPHEW THERE EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
I BROUGHT FAMILIES THERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS AS A CARLSBAD RESIDENT.
AND LIKE SOMEBODY ELSE SAID, IT'S A STAPLE.
PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS WHEN SOMEBODY WAS TRYING TO PUT A MALL THERE.
EVERYBODY CAME OUT AND SUPPORT IT.
AND I SAID, YEAH, I'LL DEFINITELY BE THERE TO SPEAK BECAUSE I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE TAKE THE TIME AND THAT YOU GUYS ALL GET TO OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS. SOME THINGS THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE CITY AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S LAWS AND WHATNOT, BUT SOMETIMES WE GET BOXED IN TO THINGS THAT THAT SHOULDN'T BE BOXED IN.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A UNIQUE SITUATION AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A BOX AROUND IT.
THERE IS THIS DEFINITION THAT WE'RE KIND OF TRYING TO DECIDE ON, AND IN THE REALITY, IT'S JUST A SMALL BUSINESS TRYING TO CREATE AN EXPERIENCE FOR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITY TO COME TOGETHER.
AND YOU ALL HAVE THE POWER TO HELP THIS SMALL BUSINESS.
AND WE AS A COMMUNITY AND A CITY SHOULD BE HELPING SMALL BUSINESSES.
THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF WHAT CARLSBAD IS BUILT ON.
AND I JUST ASK THAT YOU COMPROMISE WITH THEM AND ALLOW THEM TO HAVE THE BOUNCE HOUSES AND THESE THINGS THAT JUST CREATE MORE FINANCIAL SUPPORT TO THIS SMALL BUSINESS SO THEY CAN KEEP DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING, WHICH IS JUST CREATING JOY FOR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITY. SO I ASK THAT YOU UPHOLD THE APPEAL AND THAT IS ALL.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. NEXT SPEAKER.
WITH THAT, WE HAVE CONCLUDED OUR I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC.
MAY I RESPOND TO SOME OF THE COMMENTS.
SO WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THAT PORTION OF OUR HEARING.
WE'VE BEEN AT IT ABOUT AN HOUR AND 40 MINUTES.
I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE SHOULD TAKE PERHAPS A TEN MINUTE BREAK.
AND WHEN WE RECONVENE, THEN WE'LL GET INTO RESPONSES FROM BOTH THE APPELLANT AND FROM STAFF.
SO LET'S TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK AND COME BACK AT 6:50, PLEASE.
WE WILL BRING THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER HERE AFTER OUR BREAK.
SO I'LL TURN IT TO MR. STRONG. YOU WANT TO HAVE MR. HARDY DO IT, MR. HARDY. THANK YOU, CHAIR STINE.
A COUPLE OF COMMENTS THAT WE WANTED TO MAKE.
FIRST, THE THE QUESTION POSED TO THE CITY PLANNER IS WHAT ARE THE USES THAT ARE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO WHAT IS ALLOWED BY? RIGHT. IF I HAD THE AUTHORITY TO WRITE LAW, I WOULD ESTABLISH DEFINITIONS FOR THE APPEAL USE PROPORTIONAL AND CONSISTENT WITH ACTIVE AGRICULTURE THAT ISN'T ALLOWED THROUGH THE CITY PLANNING DETERMINATION PROCESS BY OPERATION.
THESE ADDING THESE USES IS AN ALL OR NOTHING ENDEAVOR.
IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION LOOKS AT THE FACTS AND WANTS TO MAKE A DIFFERENT DETERMINATION, THEN THAT IS THE PROCESS OUTLINED IN THE APPEAL PROCESS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW. ADDITIONALLY, THE GENERAL PLAN IS A POLICY LEVEL DOCUMENT.
[01:40:02]
UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS NOT DEFINED IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT WE WOULD SAY THAT THAT IS AN ALLOWED PROCESS THROUGH THE SPECIAL EVENT PERMIT PROCESS THAT IS ALLOWED UNDER OTHER SECTIONS OF CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE.AND THAT CONCLUDES MY REMARKS.
THANK YOU. AND I WILL ASK THE APPLICANT.
YOU KNOW, STAFF MEANS WELL, BUT CLEARLY WE FEEL IT'S A CASE OF OVERREGULATION.
THERE'S NOT A PROBLEM OUT THERE.
THE POLICE DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT THERE.
THERE'S NO FIGHTS. THERE'S NO DRUNKS CRASHING THEIR CARS OUT THERE.
WHY DO WE HAVE TO REGULATE SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY LOVES? WHY YOU HAVE TO GET A PERMIT WHEN THERE'S NOT A PROBLEM? IS IT JUST A REGULATION FOR REGULATION SAKE? ALL WE'RE ASKING IS ALLOW THE BOUNCE HOUSES IN THE CHILDREN'S STAGE, IN THE CHILDREN'S GAMES, WHICH ARE CLEARLY RECREATIONAL USES AND RECREATIONAL USES ARE ALLOWED BY.
RIGHT. IT'S NOT A FAIR THIS ISN'T THE DEL MAR FAIRGROUNDS.
THE SOLUTIONS ARE IN THE GENERAL PLAN.
THEY'RE IN THE EXISTING ZONING ORDINANCE.
WE, AS WELL AS ALL THE OTHERS IN THIS ROOM, JUST REQUESTED YOUR SUPPORT.
IT'S DIFFICULT, AS IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO COMPETE AGRICULTURALLY IN THIS.
THIS IS THE LAST FARMER, LAST UNSUBSIDIZED FARMER IN THE COASTAL ZONE BETWEEN MEXICO AND OXNARD.
AND WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP HELP AND SURVIVE AND WE JUST REQUEST YOUR SUPPORT IN THIS.
SO A COUPLE OF MINOR LITTLE ITEMS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
THIS IS THE PORTION OF OUR HEARING FOR COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS OF STAFF OR THE APPELLANT.
ARE THERE ANY COMMISSIONERS THAT HAD ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, EITHER FOR STAFF OR THE APPELLANT? I SEE NONE. I'D HAD ONE CLARIFICATION QUESTION FOR MR. HARDY. THERE'S BEEN SOME REFERENCE, SOME TESTIMONY WITH REGARD TO THE COST, AND THERE WAS A ALLEGATION THAT THE COST IS VERY COST PROHIBITIVE. IT'S ENORMOUS.
CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME SENSE, MAYBE NOT THE EXACT DOLLAR AS TO THE FILING FEE FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS? SO THE FILING FEE FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS APPROXIMATELY $6000, AND THERE WOULD ALSO BE A REQUIRED COASTAL DEVELOPMENT PERMIT FOR $1000.
THAT IS THE FILING FEE TO THE FILING FOR BOTH FOR THE CITY AND FOR THE COASTAL.
THERE'S SOMETHING BEING LEFT OUT HERE THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT.
THE FEES FOR PREPARING THE EXHIBITS, DOING THEM OVER AND OVER, MAKING ALL KINDS OF CHANGES.
IT'S FAR IT'S PROBABLY TEN TIMES WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN PROCESSING PROJECTS WITH THE CITY CARLSBAD FOR OVER 30 YEARS, OVER ALMOST 40 YEARS, OVER GUYS OVER 40 YEARS.
AGAIN, IT'S A VERY COSTLY, TIME CONSUMING AFFAIR.
SO IT'S THERE'S ONE PART OF THE CITY APPLICATION FEES AND THAT'S THE SMALLEST PART OF IT.
THE PREPARATION AND PROCESSING IS FAR GREATER THAN THAT.
THANK YOU. YEAH, MY QUESTION WAS TO THE FILING FEES AND HE'S ANSWERED THAT.
ALL RIGHT. WE'RE AT THE TIME OF OUR HEARING FOR DELIBERATIONS AND DISCUSSION AMONG COMMISSIONERS.
ANYBODY WANT TO GET US STARTED? DON'T ALL JUMP AT ONCE.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY INITIAL THOUGHTS TO LEAD OFF OUR DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER LUNA. THIS IS A TOUGH ONE FOR STAFF AND FOR US UP HERE AND FOR EVERYBODY OUT THERE.
WE HAVE THE EMOTIONAL SIDE AND THEN WE HAVE THE PLANNING SIDE.
AND SOMETIMES THE TWO DON'T MESH.
FORTUNATELY. IN THIS ARENA AND IN THE PLANNING ARENA, I'VE HAD OVER THREE AND A HALF DECADES OF PLANNING EXPERIENCE, PRIVATE AND PUBLIC. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY BEST PART BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONE PART WHERE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAVE LET THE
[01:45:08]
LOCALS DECIDE WHETHER SOMETHING SHOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT OR NOT.THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE ONLY ARENA WHERE THIS TYPE OF DISCRETION OCCURS.
THE PROPER DISCRETION HAS BEEN USED AND BASED ON OTHER EVIDENCE.
THIS GIVES US THE ABILITY TO WORK INSIDE THE BUREAUCRATIC STRUCTURE WITHOUT THE BUREAUCRACY AND BE RESPONSIVE TO USES AS THEY EVOLVE. SOMETIMES THINGS EVOLVE AT AN EXPONENTIAL RATE IN OUR AUDIENCES.
OUR GENERAL PLAN, OUR PLANNING DOCUMENTS AT THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL CAN'T KEEP UP.
THIS IS THE FEW ARENAS WHERE WE CAN OBJECTIVELY LOOK AT THESE USES AND SEE IF THEY'RE SIMILAR OR SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO SOMETHING THAT IS NAMED IN OUR MUNICIPAL CODE OR OUR GENERAL PLAN OR OTHER GOVERNING DOCUMENTS.
I'VE GIVEN THIS A LOT OF THOUGHT.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S UNIQUE TODAY, RIGHT NOW.
SO WE HAVE A SET OF GOVERNING DOCUMENTS, MUNICIPAL CODE GENERAL PLAN THAT THE PLANNERS ARE LOOKING AT, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO JUDGE WHETHER OR NOT THESE USES SHOULD BE PERMITTED AS A MATTER OF RIGHT OR NOT.
I'VE NEVER SEEN A LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM THE FARM BUREAU WITH RESPECT TO AN ACTIVITY LIKE THIS.
THESE PEOPLE ARE, VERY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT THEY DO AND WHAT THEY SAY.
SO ABSENT THE EMOTION, I TAKE A LOOK AT THE PLANNING PROCESS AND WHAT WE CAN OFFER TO THIS.
APPELLANT BASED UPON THE STAFF REPORT AND THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY AS WELL AS WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE PRESENTED TODAY, I FELLOW COLLEAGUES FIND INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO UPHOLD THE CITY PLANNERS RECOMMENDATION, AND I WOULD PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING AND I WILL PUT THIS LATER AS A MOTION FORWARD.
SO I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU MY THOUGHT PROCESS AHEAD OF TIME.
I THINK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SHOULD DENY THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION AND REMAND BACK TO STAFF THE MATTER WITH DIRECTION TO PREPARE A RESOLUTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE APPLICANT'S APPEAL BASED ON THE FOLLOWING.
NOT FIVE YEARS AGO, NOT TWO YEARS AGO.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TIC TOCK WAS TWO YEARS AGO.
I THINK I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY COMMUNICATE NOW.
THEY DON'T HAVE IT CERTAIN DEFINITIONS FOR CERTAIN THINGS THERE.
YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO OCCUR THROUGH THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO HE'S DOING THE BEST THAT HE CAN DO WITH WHAT HE HAS.
BUT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO AHEAD AND AND MAKE THESE DETERMINATIONS UP HERE.
AND AND I THINK THE AG USES THIS PRACTICE TODAY IS VERY IMPORTANT ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT UNDER THE PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES. SO YOU DO HAVE THE INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSES, THE GAMES AND FACE PAINTING THE STAGE, WHICH IS PROBABLY LIMITED TO STORYTELLING BECAUSE I THINK UNDER THE SPECIAL PERMIT YOU SHOULD HAVE THE BIGGER TYPE OF EVENTS BECAUSE AS AS PLANNER ALREADY SAID, YOU'RE LOOKING AT AND I THINK MR. STRONG SAID YOU'RE LOOKING AT IMPACTS VERSUS USE.
[01:50:01]
AS A MATTER OF RIGHT OR THAT THEY ARE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO WHAT THE STRAWBERRY FIELDS ARE DOING AS SOMETHING THAT WOULD RISE TO THE LEVEL OF A CUP, WHETHER IT'S A SMALL CUP OR A LARGE CUP.CUP'S ARE TIME CONSUMING REGARDLESS.
THEY'RE COSTLY REGARDLESS, AND THEY'RE NOT TIMELY.
AS THEY EVOLVED, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT CAN ONLY RUN AS FAST AS A CITY COUNCIL CAN.
AND THESE TYPE OF CHANGES TO ADD THESE SPECIFIC USES.
THEY WOULD BY THE TIME THEY ADDED THEM, THEY WOULD BE NONEXISTENT THE NEXT DAY.
IT TAKES A LOT OF TAXPAYER MONEY AND TIME.
I'M NOT GOING TO CONCERN MYSELF.
WELL, YOU KNOW HOW ONE APPLICANT HAS DONE THIS? I'M NOT GOING TO DISCUSS THE EMOTIONS WITH IT.
WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CITIZENS OF THE YEAR IN HERE.
WE'VE GOT THIS GENTLEMAN, WE'VE GOT MR. RODMAN, WE'VE GOT THIS GENTLEMAN HERE.
YOUR A GENTLEMAN TO THE 10TH DEGREE.
AND WE ARE SO FORTUNATE TO HAVE YOU.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE MY THOUGHTS ARE.
EXCUSE ME. I THINK COMMISSIONER LUNA WAS VERY SALIENT IN HER COMMENTS.
AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE APPELLANT, OF COURSE, IS PROVIDED TO THE COMMUNITY FOR YEARS.
I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT, AND I'M NOT GOING TO REITERATE COMMISSIONER LUNA'S COMMENTS BECAUSE IT'S NOT NECESSARY, BUT I ALSO AGREE WITH THAT AS WELL. ONE OF THE CONCERNS I HAVE IS I FEEL AND I CAN FULLY APPRECIATE STAFF AND AND COMMISSIONER LUNA MADE IT QUITE CLEAR AS TO, YOU KNOW, THE DEFINITIONS OF FAIRGROUND, YOU KNOW, BY RIGHT.
THINGS OF THAT NATURE. BUT WITHIN THE CODE WHERE YOU WHERE DO YOU FILL IN THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS REGARDING EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE, THE BOUNCY, THE STAGE, THE THINGS LIKE THAT.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, ON THE STAFF LEVEL, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE VERY EASILY RESOLVED.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS? OH COMMISSIONER MERZ.
YEAH. THANK YOU, CHAIR STEIN YEAH.
SO, YOU KNOW, AS WE LOOK AT THE STAFF REPORT ON ONE OF THE PAGES THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF A PROPOSED LAND USE ACTIVITY IS NOT SPECIFICALLY LISTED IN THE PERMITTED USE TABLE BY ZONE, DISTRICT TEXT ZONE ESTABLISHED BY MAP OR COMBINATION THERE THIS THE USER ACTIVITY SHALL NOT BE ALLOWED.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF SUMS UP MY LIFE AND FRUSTRATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS AS A COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE POINT THAT THE STAFF IS ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY CORRECT.
THOSE USES ARE DECIDED YEARS IN ADVANCE AND THOSE ALWAYS LAG BEHIND WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
AND SO THEN IT BECOMES DOWN TO INTERPRETATION ISSUE.
AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY.
I'VE JUST NEVER SEEN AN INTERPRETATION ISSUE COME DOWN DOWN TO THIS LEVEL SO OF THESE THESE PARTICULAR ITEMS. SO I WAS REALLY APPRECIATE THE PUBLIC COMMENT, PARTICULARLY THE THINGS THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION WERE THE COMMENTS OF MR. SCHUMACHER AND MS. SIEGMAN ON THE COMMENTS THAT THEY MADE AS THE INTENT OF THE GENERAL PLAN.
AS WE LOOK AT AND ALSO I'VE DEALT WITH CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS WITHIN THE CITY OF CARLSBAD, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OVERARCHING PRINCIPLE OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND EVEN SAID SO AND STAFF EVEN SAID THIS IS THE SITE SPECIFIC IMPACTS, RIGHT? SO THINK ABOUT THAT MOMENT SITE SPECIFIC IMPACTS.
SO ON SUNDAY I WAS AT THE SITE, I DROVE ON TO THE SITE.
AND WHAT I DO IS I STAND THERE AND I LOOK AT AROUND THE SITE AND YOU'RE BOUND TO LOOK WHAT YOU'RE BOUNDED BY ON ONE HAND, YOU'VE GOT BUSY CANNON ROAD, THE OTHER SIDE IS INTERSTATE FIVE, HUGE FIELD.
[01:55:02]
AND BY A LAGOON THERE IS THE ACTIVITIES.THERE'S NO ADVERSE IMPACT ON ANYBODY WITH WHAT HAPPENS ON THAT SITE.
AND I THINK THAT'S THE OVERARCHING PRINCIPLE AND KIND OF THE HIGHER LAW ARGUMENT, IF YOU MAKE THAT.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THOSE YOU HAVEN'T DEALT WITH CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS.
YOU KNOW, YOU'LL HAVE A SITUATION IN INDUSTRIAL PARK WHERE A CHURCH OR A SCHOOL WANTS TO GO IN.
AND BECAUSE THOSE ARE IMPACTS THIS IS UNIQUE IN THE STANDPOINT THAT WE'VE GOT PEOPLE IN BOUNCY HOUSES OR FACE PAINT OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIELD WITH JUST ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF SPACE SEPARATING THEM.
SO MY POINT, IS THAT THERE'S NO IMPACT AT ALL.
I WANTED TO LOOK HARD AT THE INGRESS AND EGRESS, YOU KNOW.
AND ARE THERE NOISES? THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE THOUGHTS THERE.
BUT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS YOU NEED A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
WELL, THE THING THAT CAME UP I MENTIONED EX-PARTE, IS THAT IN WORKING WITH CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, YOU HAVE TWO PARTIES, YOU KNOW, A LANDLORD AND A TENANT AND THEY'RE BOTH WANT SOMETHING, RIGHT? THEY BOTH AGREE. AND THAT REQUIRES THE LANDLORD'S CONSENT TO DO THAT IS THE APPELLANT'S CONSULTANT.
MR. HOWE MADE A VERY CLEAR POINT THAT IT'S FAR FROM CERTAIN THAT THE LANDOWNER [INAUDIBLE] WILL SIGN OFF ON THAT AND THAT ALSO PUTS THEIR LEASEHOLD INTERESTS AT RISK.
SO I BELIEVE THAT ALSO PLACES THE REQUEST FOR A CUP, ALSO PLACES AN UNDUE BURDEN ON THE APPELLANT.
AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, REALLY YOU HAVE A SITUATION HERE WHERE AS A PLANNING COMMISSIONER, I NEVER THOUGHT I'D BE IN A POSITION WHERE I'M TALKING ABOUT FACE PAINTING OR APPLE CANONS OR CORNHOLE OR THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST I DIDN'T REALLY SIGN UP TO TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS I TALKED ABOUT.
AND I THINK WHEN YOU WHEN YOU LOOK AT PLANNING, IT IS THE OVERARCHING PRINCIPLE IS IMPACT.
THEY'RE ACTUALLY THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB.
TECHNICALLY, THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
THIS ISN'T IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
BUT I THINK OUR POSITION IS PLANNING COMMISSION WITHIN OUR ABILITY TO MAKE A FINDING THAT THE INTENT OF THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE PURPOSE OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS IMPACT.
AND IT MEETS THOSE ALSO TO I THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM THE PUBLIC WHEN THE OTHER THING IS WHEN YOU'RE WORKING ON CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND I'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD, IS THAT WHAT'S THE CHANCE OF IT GETTING APPROVED? I THINK THE CHANCES ARE IF EVEN IF THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT, I THINK WE ALL AGREE THE CHANCE OF THIS BEING APPROVED ARE ABOUT 100% RIGHT.
AND SO I THINK IT'S KIND OF A FOREGONE CONCLUSION IT WOULD BE APPROVED.
SO THEN THE QUESTION IS, WHY DO WE NEED TO DO THAT AND WHY DO WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THAT EXPENSE? AND SO I THINK WITH ALL THOSE THINGS IN THERE.
AND THEN LASTLY, I THINK ONE THING THAT KIND OF STRUCK ME IS THE.
IT DROVE ME AROUND. I ACTUALLY WENT TO THE VERY EASTERN EDGE OF THE SITE.
AND YOU CAN STILL SEE THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE PLOWING HAS BEEN DONE.
THE DIRT IS DRY AND DEAD, WHERE THIS CAN'T AFFORD TO FARM ON ANYMORE.
SO IT'S VERY IT'S KIND OF SOBERING TO SEE THAT.
IT'S ACCEPTABLE FOR US TO APPROVE THE APPELLANT, AND I WOULD DENY THE PLANNING DECISION ON THAT.
SO, YEAH, THAT'S WHERE I STAND ON IT.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SABELLICO.
I'VE NEVER BEEN A BIG FAN OF ORIGINALISM AS A LEGAL CONCEPT, BUT THE LANGUAGE OF THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE INTENT OF THE GENERAL PLAN TO ME IS VERY PERSUASIVE. SO SUPPORTING AGRICULTURE AND SUPPORTING SUCH AN ICONIC PART OF OUR CITY IS STATED IN THE GENERAL PLAN AND REINFORCE AND EVERY OTHER RELEVANT PLANNING INSTRUMENT THAT WE ARE ON THIS DAIS ARE DUTY BOUND TO CONSIDER AND UPHOLD.
SO ALL THE LETTERS AND TESTIMONY CLAIMING THAT THE USES ARE ANCILLARY TO AGRITOURISM OR AGRICULTURE, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE WELL STATED AND WE COULD TALK ABOUT THEM, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO TALK ABOUT THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE MUTED AND WE HAVE TO CONSIDER ONLY THE THINGS THAT ARE PART OF OUR APPEAL.
AND IT REALLY DOES SHOW HE'S BEEN ABLE TO BRING OUT FORMAL COUNCIL MEMBERS, FORMER COMMISSIONERS, OTHER CITIZENS OF THE YEAR, AND, OF COURSE, THE BEST PUBLIC SPEAKER OF THE NIGHT, THE APPELLANT'S DAUGHTER.
[02:00:09]
COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT YET.SO IT'S REALLY SOMETHING AND I DO ALSO WANT TO APPRECIATE STAFF'S FAITHFUL IMPLEMENTATION OF OF THEIR DUTIES AND THE PLANNING INSTRUMENTS THAT THEY ARE ALSO BOUND TO UPHOLD. IT'S A HARD JOB AND I DON'T SEE THIS AS A WASTE OF TIME, ACTUALLY.
AFTER THIS MEETING, WE WILL HAVE JUDICIAL CLARITY AS TO WHAT'S ALLOWED AND WHAT'S NOT.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ONLY THIS COMMISSION CAN PROVIDE.
HOWEVER, THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS THAT WEIGH INTO MY DECISION, SUCH AS THE SITE SPECIFIC IMPACTS.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT MY PARENTS APPLIED FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
AND I WOULD GRANT THE APPEAL FOR REASONS THAT MOSTLY COMMISSIONER LUNA ALREADY STATED.
AND I KNOW THAT PLANNERS HAVE A REPUTATION FOR BEING STICKLERS FOR THE RULES AS THEY SHOULD, BUT I THINK THAT OUR COMMISSION CAN, IN THIS INSTANCE, NOT OVERSTEP OUR BOUNDS.
LET'S CONSIDER THE SITE SPECIFIC IMPACTS.
THANK YOU. HEARING NOT SEEING ANY OTHER COMMISSION.
COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY. GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY TO UPHOLD THE PUBLIC PROCESS.
I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT IT HAD TO COME TO A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING BECAUSE WE DO THINK THAT THIS PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EASILY RESOLVED IF WE HAD A LITTLE BIT EASIER, MORE FLUID COMMUNICATION.
BUT I DON'T FAULT THE PLANNERS FOR WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE ON THESE SITES AND INTERPRET THEM. AGRITOURISM.
HISTORICALLY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NAPA, THAT'S A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
THAT'S YEAR ROUND EVENTS, FAIRGROUNDS, SAME THING, YEAR ROUND EVENTS AND BUT WITHOUT THE DEFINITION OF FAIRGROUNDS, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO TRY TO SUPPORT A FAIR GROUND USE FOR THIS. I DO FEEL SPECIAL EVENTS, PERMITS AND AS OF RIGHT COULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.
AND BUT I REALLY HESITATE TO SUPPORT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT OR FORCE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ON THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY JUST BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE SUCH SPECIAL AND SIGNIFICANT MEANING TO OUR COMMUNITY.
AND IT REALLY IS A FAMILY ORIENTED EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE WHICH WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO NURTURE IN THIS COMMUNITY AND CONTINUE ALL THE TIME TO NURTURE THAT.
BECAUSE I CAME FROM A BACKGROUND WHERE GROWING UP SURROUNDED BY DAIRY FARMS AND APPLE ORCHARDS, IT GOES FROM APPLE ORCHARD TO CIDER MAKING TO WHATEVER THE NEXT MOST LUCRATIVE PRODUCT BECOMES.
AND THAT'S THE THING THAT HAS BECOME LEGAL MOST RECENTLY.
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR COMMUNITY STAYS FAMILY ORIENTED AND EDUCATIONALLY ORIENTED.
AND SO THEREFORE, I WILL DEFINITELY WANT TO SUPPORT COMMISSIONER LUNA'S APPEAL RECOMMENDATION.
ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE FURTHER COMMENT.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A POINT OF INFORMATION.
SO. IF WE GRANT THE APPEAL OR IF WE INSTRUCT STAFF TO COME BACK TO PROVIDE A RESOLUTION THAT GRANTS THE APPEAL, I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST THAT WE HAVE THE RESOLUTION INCLUDE THE FACE PAINTING, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE.
I MEAN, IT IS IN THE ORIGINAL APPEAL AND I THINK IT FALLS UNDER RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES.
SO IF IT'S OKAY WITH THE THE MAKER OF THE MOTION, WE HAVEN'T HEARD A MOTION YET.
NOT TECHNICALLY. SO WE'RE STILL IN DELIBERATIONS.
SORRY. GETTING AHEAD OF OURSELVES A LITTLE BIT.
OKAY. SORRY ABOUT THAT. COMMISSIONER KAMENJARIN, DID YOU WANT TO WEIGH IN? BRIEFLY. I DON'T WANT TO REITERATE WHAT MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID.
I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER MERTZ.
STAFF IS TECHNICALLY RIGHT IN WHAT THEY'VE PROPOSED TONIGHT.
[02:05:05]
IT WAS VERY INTERESTING.I'M DELIGHTED TO SEE WE HAVE COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT.
TWO THINGS, THAT THE THING THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT TO ME, I THINK, IS THE SITE SPECIFIC IMPACT.
AND BASED ON THAT, I WOULD SUPPORT COMMISSIONER LUNA'S.
PROPOSED RESOLUTION THOUGHTS? ALL RIGHT, LET ME I USUALLY WANT TO WAIT TILL EVERYBODY'S HAD A CHANCE TO WEIGH IN.
AND THEY HAVE I WANT TO SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO SAY THAT WE HAVE AN EXCELLENT STAFF.
THE STAFF DID THEIR JOB IN THIS CASE.
THEIR JOB WAS TO GIVE US AN HONEST, THOUGHTFUL INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE.
AS MR. LARDY INDICATES, THEY'RE NOT LEGISLATORS.
THEY LOOK AT THE CODE, THEY INTERPRET THE WORDS THEY DID THAT FUNCTION.
SO AND IT'S NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST.
THEY LOOK AT THE WORDS, THEY LOOK AT THE GENERAL PLAN.
THEY TRY TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT BASED UPON THEIR BEST UNDERSTANDING AND EXPERIENCE.
NOW, WE'RE IN A POSITION HERE TONIGHT.
I THINK AN ANALOGY WOULD BE IF SOME OF YOU, I SUPPOSE MANY OF YOU WATCH MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND, YOU KNOW, IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL NOW THAT IF THERE'S A CLOSE CALL AT FIRST BASE AND THE UMPIRE SAYS OUT, THE OTHER TEAM CAN SAY, I CHALLENGE IT AND IT GOES UPSTAIRS AND THEY LOOK AT THE VIDEO AND THEY MAKE A CONCLUSION EITHER TO CONCUR OR TO REVERSE THAT.
WE'RE KIND OF DOING THE SAME THING HERE.
SIMILAR THING IS DONE IN FOOTBALL ON TOUCHDOWN CALLS.
THE STAFF DID AN EXCELLENT JOB.
THEY'RE THE UMPIRES AND THE REFEREES.
I THINK THERE IS AN ERROR HERE.
WHY DO I SAY THAT? BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR TO ME FROM ALL THE TESTIMONY, IN MY OWN OBSERVATIONS, THIS IS A FARM, THIS IS AGRICULTURE.
THEY CALL IT THE SAN DIEGO COUNTY FAIR.
YOU GO TO THAT. THERE ARE BIG RIDES, THERE ARE EXHIBITIONS, VARIOUS THINGS, NOISE.
IT'S THE OTHER END OF THE CONTINUUM.
IT IS A FARM THAT IS ITS PRIMARY USE.
SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS ANCILLARY USES TO THAT FARM.
AND HERE IN THE REALITY OF OUR ECONOMY TODAY, IF WE HEARD TESTIMONY, IT IS VERY, DIFFICULT, PARTICULARLY IN THE COASTAL AREA WITH ALL THE COST, LAND COST, WATER COST, YOU NAME IT, TO MAKE A GO OF IT ECONOMICALLY FOR A FARM ON THE COASTLINE WHERE OUR FARMS NOW WAY IN THE INLAND WHERE IT'S THE LAND IS NOT EXPENSIVE.
SO WE HAVE A PRECIOUS RESOURCE HERE IN THE STRAWBERRY FIELD, MUCH LIKE WE DO WITH THE FLOWER FIELDS, SIMILAR SITUATION, FLOWER FIELDS GROW FLOWERS. THAT'S THE PRIMARY ACTIVITY.
BUT THEY ALSO HAVE MAZES, THEY ALSO HAVE WAGON RIDES, THEY ALSO HAVE VISITOR FACILITIES THERE THAT ARE COMPLEMENT THE FARM. I THINK WE HAVE A SIMILAR SITUATION HERE, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT THE SAME ZONING.
WE HAVE A PRIMARY AGRICULTURAL USE, IT IS A FARM.
AND THE ONES WHERE I SEE WE HAVE THE DISAGREEMENT, I HAVE TO SIDE WITH THE APPELLANT HERE.
I DON'T THINK THAT HAVING BOUNCY INFLATABLE BOUNCES, FACE PAINTING, FREE GAMES STAGE WHERE THEY DO EDUCATIONAL THINGS OR HAVE A LITTLE MUSIC IN ANY WAY.
BRINGS US TO A DELMAR FAIR SITUATION? NOT AT ALL.
SO THESE ARE ANCILLARY USES AND AND THE FARMING IS PRIMARY.
AND HERE'S THE OTHER FACTOR THAT WEIGHS IN MY MIND WHERE THE IMPACTS I'VE ASKED STAFF AND THEY GIVE HONEST ANSWERS ABOUT HAVE THE PEOPLE AT THE CAR COUNTRY CARLSBAD COMPLAINED TRAFFIC NOISE.
HAVE WE HAD ANY EVIDENCE OF SUBSTANTIAL CONGESTION THERE OR OVERFLOW PARKING WORK CREATES A PROBLEM IN THE SURROUNDING AREA? NO. THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF THINGS YOU LOOK AT FOR CUP A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, BUT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THEM THERE.
[02:10:09]
FACE THESE I DON'T SEE THE IMPACTS SUCH THAT IT WOULD WARRANT CLOSE LOOK AT MAYBE CONDITIONING ADDING THIS AND ADDING THAT I DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR IT HERE.HAVING MAZES, HAVING LITTLE BOUNCE.
IT ADDS TO THE FAMILY ATMOSPHERE.
BUT IT'S STILL A FARM, SO I WOULD FAVOR A MOTION TO GRANT THE APPEAL.
COMMISSIONER MERZ YEAH, JUST ONE QUESTION.
SO DURING THIS KIND OF A QUESTION I WASN'T SURE ABOUT, SO THE APPELLANT, YOU KNOW, TOOK CERTAIN THINGS OFF AND GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH THE STAFF AS THIS GOES BACK AND YOU RE DISCUSS THOSE THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE THE FACE PAIN, THE APPLE, YOU KNOW, THE APPLE SHOOTING.
CAN THOSE THINGS OR IS THAT BEEN A DECIDED ISSUE OR.
YEAH. THE SUBJECT OF THE APPEAL TONIGHT ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE LISTED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.
SO FACE PAINTING, I GUESS YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT IT'S STILL UP FOR GRABS.
AND IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION IF IT HAD BEEN SO.
BUT ANYWAY, THAT WASN'T BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.
IT WAS JUST THOSE FOUR ITEMS. SO WE CAN RELY COUNCIL ON WHAT WAS IN THE SLIDE THAT ARTICULATED THOSE FOUR ITEMS WITH THE BOXES.
THERE WE GO. THIS IS WHAT'S BEFORE US IN TERMS OF MAKING THE DETERMINATION.
GOOD. WANTED THAT CLARIFICATION WE'RE GETTING IN THE WEEDS HERE.
ALL RIGHT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, IF NOT WITH SOMEONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? COMMISSIONER SABELLICO.
ACTUALLY, I THINK COMMISSIONER LUNA SHOULD MAKE THE MOTION.
SORRY. COMMISSIONER, LUNA YOU'RE YIELDING TO THE ELDERLY, ARE YOU NOT? JUST GET A JOB THAT YOU PAY INTO SOCIAL SECURITY, PLEASE? OK BASED UPON THE STAFF REPORT, PUBLIC TESTIMONY AS WELL AS WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE PRESENTED, I FIND INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO UPHOLD THE CITY PLANNERS RECOMMENDATION AND WOULD PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION DENY THE CITY PLANNERS DETERMINATION AND REMAND BACK TO STAFF THIS MATTER WITH DIRECTIONS TO PREPARE A RESOLUTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE APPLICANT'S APPEAL BASED ON THE FOLLOWING.
THE FOLLOWING USES ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL PLAN AND CONSIDERED SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO AGRICULTURAL USES AS PRACTICE TODAY ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT UNDER THE PUBLIC UTILITY ZONE, RECREATIONAL FACILITIES, INFLATABLE BOUNCE HOUSES, GAMES AND OR FACE GAMES AND FACE PAINTING STAGE AND MUSICAL PERFORMANCES IS OKAY.
AND. THAT CONCLUDES MY RECOMMENDED POINT OF CLARIFICATION.
IT WAS JUST THE STAGE PORTION, NOT THE MUSICAL PERFORMANCES.
OKAY, SO STAGE AND WE'RE LIMITING THAT TO STORYTELLING.
[INAUDIBLE] STRUCTURES IS OFF THE TABLE.
I JUST WANTED TO HELP YOU MAKE IT MORE LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE.
YES, WE DO NEED TO LABEL A USE IN THAT TABLE THAT THIS IS AGRICULTURE, ISN'T A LISTED USE IN THAT WORDS.
SO I WOULD SUGGEST WE USE I THINK IT WAS CROP PRODUCTION.
SO WE SAY THAT IT IS CROP PRODUCTION AND THEN THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY CHANGE I WOULD MAKE.
OKAY. IT'S ALLOWED BY RIGHT UNDER CROP PRODUCTION.
THE DEFINITION OF CROP PRODUCTION.
AS AN ANCILLARY USE CLARIFICATION, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ANCILLARY USE OR AS BEING SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO AGRICULTURAL USES AS PRACTICE TODAY REGARDING CROP PRODUCTION? AND I'D LIKE TO STAY AWAY FROM ANCILLARY USE BECAUSE THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT IN OUR CODE SECTION.
IT'S AN ACCESSORY USE AND ACCESSORY USES ARE DEFINED AS STRUCTURES.
IS THERE A SECOND? COMISSIONER MEENES.
MOTION AND SECOND, IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, LET'S VOTE.
[02:15:01]
FOLKS, YOU'RE WELCOME TO STICK AROUND.BUT WE HAVE A FEW OTHER ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA THAT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO NOW.
DO YOU NEED A FEW MINUTES? I'LL GIVE YOU A FEW MINUTES BEFORE WE GO ON TO THE OTHER ITEMS. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.
WE'RE AT THE PORTION OF OUR AGENDA FOR STAFF REPORTS.
[PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS:]
I WILL GO DOWN THE LINE.COMMISSIONER LUNA. STAFF REPORT.
COMMISSIONER REPORT. EXCUSE ME.
COMMISSIONER REPORT. COMMISSIONER MEENES.
COMMISSIONER MERZ. COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.
THANK YOU. JUST BRIEFLY, THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MET AUGUST 22ND.
THEY DID CREATE A REALLY INTERESTING TEMPLATE FOR THE VILLAGE AND BARRIO MASTERPLAN, A STARTING POINT WHERE THE TAKING INTO THE CHARACTER AND THE SMALL TOWN FEEL AND THE CHARM AND THE SCALE.
AND SO THEY'VE KIND OF NARROWED IT DOWN, BUT THEY HAD NINE ORIGINAL STYLES THAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT, AND I THINK WE'RE NARROWING IT DOWN TO ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE, BUT THAT'S REASONABLE AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET IT A LITTLE MORE CONCISE.
THE NEXT MEETING I THINK, IS OCTOBER 25TH FOR THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE.
SO LOOK FORWARD TO GIVING YOU AN UPDATE.
THEN THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEETING THAT WAS ATTENDED WAS THE SEPTEMBER 12TH HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING, AND MR. STRONG ARE OUR ILLUSTRIOUS ASSISTANT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, GAVE A WONDERFUL PRESENTATION WITH OUR FORMER PLANNER, TERRY DEL KAMP, ON THE MILLS ACT, AND THEY DID A VERY THOROUGH PRESENTATION, VERY IMPRESSIVE.
AND THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THE RESOLUTION OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION TO APPROVE AMENDMENTS TO THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION AND TITLE HISTORIC 2022 HISTORIC PRESERVATION.
AND SO THIS NEXT STEP, HOPEFULLY MR. STRONG CAN ENLIGHTEN US ON WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE, BUT IT HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL FOR THEIR APPROVAL.
BUT WE REALLY APPRECIATE THIS, THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT.
AS YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER SABELLICO AND I REPRESENT THE COMMISSION ON THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE COMMITTEE AND WE ARE MEETING TOMORROW.
WE HAVE GOT A VERY EXHAUSTIVE REVIEW OF THE VARIOUS FACILITIES THAT WERE PART OF OUR EXISTING PLAN THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO UPDATE AND REVISE TOMORROW WHERE THE FOCUS IS GOING TO BE ON OPEN SPACE AND PARKS.
THAT WILL PROBABLY BE OUR FINAL STAFF INTENSIVE.
BUT STAFF HAS DONE A VERY DETAILED JOB AND GIVING US A THOROUGH EDUCATION OF WHAT STANDARDS ARE FOR WATER, LIBRARIES, FIRE EVERYTHING AND WE'RE DOWN TO PARKS AND OPEN SPACE.
BUT WHEN WE MEET AGAIN IN OCTOBER AND MR. HARDY IS AT THE 12TH OF OCTOBER, WE MEET OCTOBER 12TH.
YES, WE WILL BE TRANSITIONING.
SO THERE WILL BE DISCUSSIONS ON OK.
WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT EACH OF THESE STANDARDS.
NOW WHAT DO WE DO MOVING FORWARD IN 2022 WITH REGARD TO A REVISED GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN? SO STAY TUNED.
WE'LL GIVE YOU FURTHER UPDATES AS WE MOVE ALONG.
YES, CHAIR. AND ONE CLARIFICATION, YOU SAID IT WAS THE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE COMMITTEE.
IT'S THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT NOTES THAT I SAID GENERAL PLAN.
IT IS GROWTH MANAGEMENT, NOT GENERAL PLAN.
I HAD DOWN HERE GM AND I PUT GP OK GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
CORRECT. THANK YOU, MR. STRONG. THANK YOU CHAIR STINE.
[CITY PLANNER REPORT:]
JUST TO SPEAK TO TWO GENERAL MATTERS.[02:20:02]
THE OTHER MATTER IS A DEBRIEF OF UPCOMING ITEMS THAT ARE SCHEDULED FOR CITY COUNCIL CONSIDERATION THAT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO THIS PLANNING COMMISSION.ONE WAS ALLUDED TO BY REFERENCE EARLIER THE WORK OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION AND THEIR UPDATE RECOMMENDATION FOR UPDATING CHAPTER 2.42 OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE, AS WELL AS TITLE 22, WHICH EFFECTIVELY IS CALLED THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCE.
AMONG THOSE OTHER THINGS CONSIDERED IS A MILLS ACT PROGRAM, WHICH IS A PROPERTY TAX INCENTIVE TO.
THAT WILL BE A NEW PROGRAM FOR THE CITY.
SO THERE'LL BE AN EFFECTIVE LAUNCH SHOULD CITY COUNCIL ADOPT THAT PROGRAM IN 2023 INVOLVING OUTREACH TO THOSE PROPERTIES THAT MIGHT BE ELIGIBLE FOR THAT PROGRAM. THE SECOND ITEM THAT IS GOING TO BE CONSIDERED ON THAT SAME EVENING, LIKELY TENTATIVELY, IS AN UPDATE TO THE CALIFORNIA BUILDING STANDARDS CODE.
AND IF THERE ARE ANY LOCAL AMENDMENTS TO THAT MIGHT AFFECT PLANNING OR SITE DESIGN, THE PLANNING DIVISION STAFF WILL BE COORDINATING THAT EARLY ENGAGEMENT WITH THE APPLICANTS TO ENSURE THAT IT'S INCORPORATED AS PART OF THAT DESIGN BEFORE IT'S PRESENTED, BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND IF THERE ARE ANY LOCAL AMENDMENTS THAT ARE TECHNICAL MATTER IS OF INTEREST, WE CAN PROVIDE A SEPARATE PRESENTATION OR DEBRIEF IN THIS TYPE OF FORMAT, AND THAT IS ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. STRONG. MR. KEMP. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT I WILL NOT BE AT THE NEXT MEETING.
[CITY ATTORNEY REPORT:]
BUT YOU'LL BE IN THE CAPABLE HANDS OF DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY ALLEGRA FROST.GREAT. AND I WILL ALSO BE MISSING FROM THE NEXT MEETING.
SO YOU'LL BE IN THE CAPABLE HANDS OF VICE CHAIR LAFFERTY.
I WAS HOPING, MR. STRONG, WERE YOU LOOKING AT THEM GIVING US A DEBRIEF AFTER THE CITY COUNCIL CAN AGENDA? IS THAT BECAUSE I'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR WHERE WE'RE AT ON THAT.
REGARDING THE MILLS ACT OR I CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE AN INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATION.
OKAY. AND THEN ONE QUICK OTHER QUESTION.
HOW'S OUR HOUSING ELEMENT? IS IS STILL STAYING STRONG.
IT'S ONE OF SEVEN IN THE STATE.
SO I CAN TELL MY [INAUDIBLE] MEMBERS WE DID IT.
WE'RE CONTINUING TO IMPLEMENT.
WE'RE ACTUALLY ARE HAVING SCOPING MEETINGS FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT NEXT WEEK.
WE HAVE A VIRTUAL MEETING AND AN IN-PERSON MEETING SCHEDULED.
OKAY. ANYTHING MORE? IF NOT, WE ARE ADJOURNED.
THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.