2. EL CAMINO REAL WIDENING PROJECT, ARENAL ROAD TO LA COSTA AVE - CDP2022-0030, HMP2022-0004, HDP2022-0001, SUP2022-0003, SUP2022-0004 (PUB 2021-0012)

[2. EL CAMINO REAL WIDENING PROJECT, ARENAL ROAD TO LA COSTA AVE - CDP2022-0030, HMP2022-0004, HDP2022-0001, SUP2022-0003, SUP2022-0004 (PUB 2021-0012) ]

ALL RIGHT.

I WILL NOW OPEN PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM NUMBER TWO.

ANY EX PARTE CONVERSATIONS ON ITEM NUMBER TWO? OKAY.

MR. LARDY, WOULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE ITEM NUMBER TWO? YES, THANK YOU.

HERE TO GIVE THE STAFF PRESENTATION ON THE EL CAMINO REAL WIDENING PROJECT AND ASSOCIATED PERMITS IS SENIOR PLANNER SCOTT DONALD.

JOINING US AS THE PROJECT APPLICANT IS BRANDON MILES WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS.

THANK YOU, MR. LARDY, AND GOOD EVENING, PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

THE EL CAMINO REAL WIDENING PROJECT THAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING TONIGHT IS A CITY CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT TO IMPROVE A NEARLY ONE-MILE STRETCH OF EL CAMINO REAL IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE CITY ALONG VATIKITOS

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LAGOON.

EL CAMINO REAL IS CARLSBAD'S PRIMARY NORTH-SOUTH THOROUGHFARE.

PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS WOULD STRETCH FROM NORTH OF ARANOL ROAD TO LA COSTA AVENUE.

IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE ADDING A THIRD SOUTHBOUND VEHICLE LANE, COMPLETION OF A SIGNIFICANT SIDEWALK GAP ALONG THE LAGOON, TWO PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES, TWO PEDESTRIAN OVERLOOKS, AND LANDSCAPING.

MOST IMPROVEMENTS ARE CONCENTRATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREET AS NORTHBOUND EL CAMINO REAL WITHIN THE PROJECT BOUNDARIES ALREADY FEATURES THREE VEHICLE LANES AND CONTINUOUS SIDEWALK FOR MOST OF ITS LENGTH.

SURROUNDING LAND USES INCLUDE OPEN SPACE.

RESIDENTIAL NORTH OF ARNOLL ROAD, VISITOR COMMERCIAL ON THE EAST SIDE OF EL CAMINO REAL, AND LOCAL SHOPPING CENTER NEAR LA COSTA AVENUE, THE LOCATION OF THE FORMER GELSON'S MARKET.

THE GENERAL PLAN IDENTIFIES EL CAMINO REAL AS AN ARTERIAL STREET OR A PRIMARY VEHICLE ROUTE DESIGNED TO SAFELY MOVE ALL MODES OF TRAVEL WHILE EFFICIENTLY MOVING VEHICLES AND BUSES.

AS AN ARTERIAL, THE GENERAL PLAN INDICATES THE STREET SHOULD ALSO PROVIDE BICYCLE LANES AND PEDESTRIAN FACILITIES.

THE PROJECT IS LOCATED ALMOST ENTIRELY IN THE COASTAL ZONE AND PRIMARILY IN THE CITY'S RIGHT-OF-WAY.

TO ACCOMMODATE ALL IMPROVEMENTS, RIGHT-OF-WAY ACQUISITION IS PROPOSED ALONG THE WEST SIDE OF EL CAMINO REAL, SOUTH OF ARNOLL ROAD, AND ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET AT THE EL CAMINO REAL BRIDGE ACROSS SAN MARCOS CREEK.

THE MAP SHOWS THE LOCATIONS OF BOTH ACQUISITION PROPOSALS.

THE PROJECT REQUIRES FIVE DIFFERENT CITY PERMITS.

FIRST, OWING TO ITS COASTAL ZONE LOCATION, THE PROJECT REQUIRES A COASTAL DEVELOPMENT PERMIT.

ADDITIONALLY, STREET IMPROVEMENTS WOULD IMPACT NATIVE HABITAT, SO A HABITAT MANAGEMENT PLAN PERMIT IS ALSO REQUIRED.

THE PROJECT ALSO NEEDS TWO SPECIAL USE PERMITS DUE TO ITS LOCATION WITHIN AND ALONG THE EL CAMINO REAL CORRIDOR AND PARTIALLY WITHIN A FLOODPLAIN.

FINALLY, A WAIVER FROM THE CITY COUNCIL IS NECESSARY TO ADJUST THE OPEN SPACE BOUNDARY ALONG BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET DUE TO THE ACQUISITION OF RIGHT-OF-WAY NEEDED TO ACCOMMODATE PROJECT IMPROVEMENTS.

THIS WAIVER IS PERMITTED FOR PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY IMPROVEMENTS SUCH AS THE PROJECT.

DUE TO THE WAIVER NEED, ALL PROJECT PERMITS WILL BE SUBJECT TO CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL.

BESIDES CITY APPROVAL, SINCE A PORTION OF THE PROJECT IS WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE CALIFORNIA COASTAL COMMISSION, A COASTAL DEVELOPMENT PERMIT FROM THE COMMISSION IS ALSO REQUIRED.

THIS APPROVAL WOULD BE SOUGHT AFTER ALL CITY ISSUE OF PERMITS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED.

THE PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH ALL APPLICABLE STANDARDS AND PROJECT CONSTRUCTION IS ANTICIPATED TO TAKE PLACE OVER NINE MONTHS AND WOULD LIKELY BEGIN LATE THIS YEAR OR EARLY NEXT.

THIS AND THE NEXT FEW SLIDES PROVIDE VIEWS OF EL CAMINO REAL AND THE PROJECT VICINITY AS THE STREET EXISTS TODAY.

THIS FIRST VIEW LOOKS SOUTH FROM THE NORTHERNMOST POINT OF THE PROJECT, WHICH IS ABOUT 750 FEET NORTH OF THE ARNALL ROAD-EL CAMINO REAL INTERSECTION.

HERE CURRENT STREET STRIPING MUST TRANSITION FROM THREE SOUTHBOUND LANES TO TWO BECAUSE EL CAMINO REAL SOUTH OF HERE FEATURES JUST THE TWO SOUTHBOUND LANES.

THE PROJECT WOULD RE-STRIPE THIS PORTION OF THE STREET TO THREE SOUTHBOUND LANES TO MATCH PROJECT IMPROVEMENTS.

CONTINUING SOUTH ALONG EL CAMINO REAL SHOWS THE CITY'S FIRE STATION NUMBER TWO AT THE EL CAMINO RAIL-ARNOLD INTERSECTION.

ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREET, JUST PAST THE INTERSECTION, LANE WIDENING, SIDEWALK, AND LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS WOULD BEGIN ALONG WITH THE RIGHT-OF-WAY ACQUISITION, AS INDICATED ON THE MAP.

AN AERIAL VIEW IS USED ON THIS SLIDE TO MAKE CLEARER THE EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS AND PROPOSED FEATURES IN THE VICINITY OF SAN MARCOS CREEK AND THE BRIDGE SOUTH OF THE ENTRANCE TO THE OMNI LA COSTA RESORT AT COSTA DEL MAR AND JUST NORTH OF THE SHOPPING CENTER.

AS THE VIEW DEPICTS, THERE IS NO SIDEWALK ON EITHER SIDE OF THE STREET.

WHILE PROJECT IMPROVEMENTS TO THIS POINT HAVE BEEN CONCENTRATED ON THE STREET'S WEST SIDE, IMPROVEMENTS ON BOTH SIDES ARE PROPOSED IN THE VICINITY OF THE BRIDGE TO REMEDY THE LACK OF PEDESTRIAN FACILITIES.

TO CROSS THE CREEK AND AVOID MODIFYING THE EXISTING BRIDGE, TWO PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES, ONE ON EACH SIDE OF THE STREET, ARE PROPOSED.

THE ACQUISITION OF RIGHT-OF-WAY IS REQUIRED FOR THE EAST SIDE BRIDGE.

THIS PERSPECTIVE SHOWS THE TWO PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES IN RELATION TO EL CAMINO REAL.

LOOKING NORTHBOUND.

THE BRIDGES ARE INDEPENDENT STRUCTURES, EACH APPROXIMATELY 200 FEET LONG.

THIS BRIDGE WOULD LOOK LIKE THE BRIDGE DEPICTED HERE, WHICH IS A PHOTO OF THE BRIDGE AT THE CANNON ROAD EL CAMINO REAL INTERSECTION INSTALLED IN 2022.

THIS BRIDGE IS PAINTED A COLOR SIMILAR TO CORTON STEEL, WHICH HAS AN EARTHY ORANGE-BROWN

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PATINA THAT RESEMBLES STABLE RUST.

PROPOSED BRIDGES WOULD BE SIMILARLY FINISHED AND SIMILAR IN APPEARANCE.

AS FAR AS PROJECT CONSISTENCY, STAFF HAS ANALYZED THE PROJECT AND FOUND THAT ALL REQUIRED FINDINGS FOR APPROVAL OF PERMIT APPLICATIONS CAN BE MET AND THAT THE PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL PLAN, ZONING ORDINANCE, LOCAL COASTAL PROGRAM, AND HABITAT MANAGEMENT PLAN.

IN ADDITION, WE HAVE LOOKED AT PROJECT CONSISTENCY IN TERMS OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN.

AND BECAUSE OF, AMONG OTHER THINGS, ITS COMPLETION OF A PEDESTRIAN NETWORK, IT HELPS TO MEET THE OBJECTIVES OF THAT CLIMATE ACTION PLAN TO ENCOURAGE MEENS OTHER THAN VEHICLES FOR TRANSPORTATION.

IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT, THE CITY PREPARED AN INITIAL STUDY, MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION, TO ANALYZE AND DISCLOSE THE PROJECT'S ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, WHICH WAS CIRCULATED FOR PUBLIC REVIEW.

THE DOCUMENT DETERMINED THAT THE PROJECT MAY HAVE POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS TO BIOLOGICAL RESOURCES, CULTURAL AND TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES, AS WELL AS PALEONTOLOGICAL RESOURCES.

HOWEVER, WITH THE INCORPORATION OF MITIGATION MEASURES, THE PROJECT WOULD NOT RESULT IN IN ANY SIGNIFICANT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS.

IN ADDITION, THESE MITIGATION MEASURES ARE CONTAINED WITHIN WHAT'S KNOWN AS A MITIGATION MONITORING AND REPORTING PROGRAM, IMPLEMENTATION OF WHICH IS REQUIRED BY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.

PUBLIC COMMENT WAS CONDUCTED COMPLIANT WITH CITY STANDARDS AND STATE LAW.

THE CITY PROVIDED EARLY PUBLIC NOTICE OF THE PROJECT IN 2024 AS REQUIRED BY CITY COUNCIL POLICY 84.

NO COMMENTS WERE RECEIVED IN RESPONSE TO THIS NOTICE.

THE CITY ALSO CONDUCTED CONSULTATION WITH NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES CONSISTENT WITH STATE ASSEMBLY BILL AB 52.

IN FALL OF 2025, THE PROJECT'S INITIAL STUDY WAS CIRCULATED FOR PUBLIC REVIEW.

IN RESPONSE, THE CITY RECEIVED COMMENTS FROM THE BOTIQUITOS LAGOON FOUNDATION, RESIDENTS OF THE CITY, COASTAL COMMISSION, RINCON BAND OF LASENO INDIANS, AND FINALLY THE SAN DIEGO COUNTY ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOCIETY.

EACH COMMENT RECEIVED WAS RESPONDED TO.

AND ALL COMMENTS AND RESPONSES ARE PROVIDED AS PART OF THE ATTACHMENT TO EXHIBIT 01, THE PROPOSED RESOLUTION THAT PROPOSES TO ADOPT THE INITIAL STUDY MITIGATING NEGATIVE DECLARATION.

THE FOLLOWING HIGHLIGHTS SOME OF THE COMMENTS RECEIVED AND THE CITY'S RESPONSES TO THEM.

THE BOTIQUITAS LAGOON FOUNDATION, FOR EXAMPLE, COMMENTED ON HABITAT PROTECTION, EROSION, AND STORMWATER QUALITY, AS WELL AS PROJECT CONSISTENCY WITH THE LAGOON FOUNDATION'S FUTURE TRAIL PLANS.

THE PROJECT WOULD NOT INTERFERE WITH A FUTURE TRAIL CONNECTION PLANNED BY THE FOUNDATION ALONG THE PROJECT'S WEST SIDE.

IN ADDITION, RESIDENTS EXPRESSED CONCERNS REGARDING STORMWATER TREATMENT AND SOIL EROSION, AS WELL AS HABITAT MITIGATION AND THE POTENTIAL FOR LANDSLIDE RISK.

STAFF RESPONDED TO EACH CONCERN, NOTING IN PART THE RELEVANT ANALYSIS PROVIDED IN THE INITIAL STUDY MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION TO HELP RESPOND TO THOSE CONCERNS.

FATHER.

FURTHER, THE PROJECT'S DO TECHNICAL REPORT, WHICH CLARIFIED THAT THERE WAS NO LANDSLIDE RISK, WAS ADDED AS AN APPENDIX TO THE PROJECT'S ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENT.

THE COASTAL COMMISSION EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT ROADWAY WIDENING AND RECOMMENDED ADDING VERTICAL BUFFER ELEMENTS BETWEEN BICYCLE AND VEHICLE LANES.

REGARDING THE LATTER, THE CITY DOES NOT RECOMMEND THOSE VERTICAL BUFFER ELEMENTS FOR THIS PROJECT BASED ON LOCAL ROADWAY CONDITIONS AS WELL AS PUBLIC INPUT.

COASTAL COMMISSION ALSO RECOMMENDED PERMANENT FENCING BE LOW PROFILE TO MINIMIZE VISUAL IMPACTS, WHICH THE PROJECT DOES INCORPORATE.

IN ADDITION, THE CITY ALSO CONSULTED WITH THE RINCON BAND OF LUCENO INDIANS, AND FOLLOWING THAT CONSULTATION, THE RINCON BAND PROVIDED SEVERAL COMMENTS REGARDING PROPOSED TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE MITIGATION MEASURES.

STAFF RESPONDED TO EACH COMMENT, NOTING THE ADEQUACY OF THE MITIGATION MEASURES PROPOSED FOR THE PROJECT.

FURTHERMORE, STAFF DOES ACKNOWLEDGE THE RINCON BAN OF LUISEÑO INDIANS OVER ALL CONCERNS WITH THE TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE MITIGATION MEASURES IN GENERAL, AND WE ARE WORKING WITH THE TRIBE PRESENTLY TO ADDRESS THEM AS PART OF THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE UPDATE TO ITS 2017 TRIBAL CULTURAL AND PALEONTOLOGICAL GUIDELINES.

FINALLY, IN ITS COMMENT LETTER, THE COUNTY ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOCIETY SUPPORTED THE CITY'S CULTURAL AND TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE MITIGATION MEASURES.

IN ADDITION TO THAT PUBLIC DISCUSSION, THE CITY ALSO SENT OUT A PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING.

IN RESPONSE, WE RECEIVED ONE LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM THE CO-DEVELOPER AND PARTIAL OWNER OF THE LA COSTA PLAZA SHOPPING CENTER.

THIS LETTER WAS DISTRIBUTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND POSTED ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE.

IN CONCLUSION, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION ADOPT TWO RESOLUTIONS APPROVING THE PROPOSAL.

THE FIRST RESOLUTION RECOMMENDS

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TO THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTION OF THE PROJECT'S ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENT.

THE SECOND RESOLUTION RECOMMENDS TO THE COUNCIL APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT'S FIVE REQUIRED PERMITS, AS WELL AS THE WAIVER OF THE GENERAL PLAN OPEN SPACE POLICY AFFORDED TO PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS.

THIS CONCLUDES THE PRESENTATION.

HERE TO HELP.

HELP ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE ARE BRANDON MILES, AN ASSOCIATE ENGINEER WITH THE CITY AND PROJECT MANAGER, AS WELL AS MICHAEL ANGUIANO WITH CONSULTING FIRM AECOM, WHO IS REPRESENTING THE PROJECT CONSULTANT TEAM.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

AS USUAL, EXCELLENT PRESENTATION, VERY THOROUGH.

THANK YOU, MR. DONALD.

COMMISSIONERS, FURTHER, ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS ITEM? COMMISSIONER FITZGERALD.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.

THE LAST POINT ABOUT THE LANDSLIDE CONCERNS FROM THE PUBLIC, CAN YOU COMMENT ON THE FACT THAT WE'LL BE REQUESTING OR APPROVING A HILLSIDE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT, BUT YET THERE ARE NO ENVIRONMENTAL CONSIDERATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE LANDSLIDE CONCERNS? CAN YOU COMMENT ON KIND OF HOW THOSE SEEM A LITTLE BIT CONFLICTING AND WHY WE WOULD NEED A HILLSIDE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

THE GEOTECHNICAL REPORT CLARIFIED THAT THERE WERE NO HILLSIDE CONCERNS, DESPITE THE COMMENT RECEIVED FROM A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC.

THE HILLSIDE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT IS NEEDED BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE GRADIENT AS WELL AS THE HEIGHT OF THE SLOPE ALONG THE WEST SIDE OF EL CAMINO REAL.

THAT'S REALLY THE REASON WHY THAT PERMIT IS REQUIRED AS OPPOSED TO ANY CONCERNS REGARDING LANDSLIDES.

THANK YOU.

AND THEN ONE LAST QUESTION.

I'M CURIOUS IF YOU LOOKED INTO ANY ALTERNATIVES.

I KNOW WHEN IT COMES TO STREET LINING, IT'S GOING TO INCREASE TRAFFIC SPEEDS.

IT BECOMES A LITTLE BIT MORE DANGEROUS.

IT ACTUALLY INCREASES CONGESTION OFTEN.

SO HOW ARE WE? YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING THIS AND IN LIGHT OF ALL THE ALTERNATIVES THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, REDUCING THOSE SPEEDS IN A HIGH TRAFFIC AREA.

YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT PEOPLE TO WALK IN THIS SPACE, MAKING THOSE SPEEDS SLOWER, SO IT'S MORE INVITING FOR THE PUBLIC.

SO WERE ALTERNATIVES CONSIDERED AND HOW DID WE END UP HERE WITH WINDING AND POTENTIALLY INCREASING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD LEAD TO THE DOWNSIDE OF WANTING TO HAVE FOLKS WALK IN THIS SPACE? SO ALTERNATIVES TO ROAD WIDENING, FOR EXAMPLE? CORRECT.

ADDING A THIRD SOUTHBOUND LANE? THE PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY'S GENERAL PLAN.

IT RECOGNIZES THAT AS AN ARTERIAL STREET, FULL BUILD-OUT EQUALS THREE TRAFFIC LANES IN EACH DIRECTION.

SO IT'S PROVIDING THAT CONSISTENCY WITH A CITY POLICY DOCUMENT.

THE SANDAG REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM ALSO IDENTIFIES THESE IMPROVEMENTS AS WELL, THE ADDITION OF A THIRD SOUTHBOUND LANE.

WITH REGARD SPECIFICALLY TO SIDEWALKS, IN SOME CASES THE SIDEWALK IS SEPARATED.

FROM THE CURB BY A PLANTER, WHICH PROVIDES AN ADDITIONAL BUFFER, AND THEN FURTHER SEPARATING THE SIDEWALK FROM THE TRAVEL LANES, OF COURSE, IS A BIKE LANE, AND THAT BIKE LANE ITSELF IS BUFFERED AS WELL THROUGH STRIPING.

THANK YOU.

MR. DONALD, I HAVE A QUESTION.

IN REGARD TO YOUR COMMENT ON THE COASTAL COMMISSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY HAD, AND YOU INDICATED ON TWO OF THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY DID NOT FEEL IT WAS IMPORTANT AND NECESSARY TO HAVE THAT BARRIER.

ET CETERA.

COULD YOU CLARIFY A LITTLE FURTHER AS TO THAT'S THE COASTAL COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION, AND YET THE CITY IS NOT GOING TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND OR PROCEED ON WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATION IN THE DESIGN OF THIS PROJECT? CORRECT.

OF COURSE, ANY ONE AGENCY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC IS FREE TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENT, AND WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO MAKE CHANGES BASED ON COMMENTS, BUT WE DO NEED TO RESPOND TO THEM, AND THAT'S INDEED WHAT WE DID.

IN OUR OPINION, IN THE CITY'S OPINION, BASED ON INFORMATION AND RESEARCH THAT WE'VE DONE, IT'S BEEN DETERMINED THAT FOR THE CITY OF CARLSBAD, THE ADDITION OF A VERTICAL BUFFER ALONG EL CAMINO REAL IS NOT WISE.

AND I CAN ASK ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF OUR ENGINEERING TEAM IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO FURTHER EXPAND ON THAT TO EXPLAIN THE POINT BETTER.

MY NAME IS TOM FRANK.

I'M THE TRANSPORTATION DIRECTOR AND CITY ENGINEER.

AND THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION IN REGARDS TO OUR DESIGN ON THIS ROAD SEGMENT.

SO IN REGARDS TO HOW WE DETERMINE WHAT IS THE DESIGN AND THE LANE WIDTHS FOR ROAD SEGMENTS SUCH AS THIS, WE ACTUALLY REVIEW OUR PROPOSED DESIGN WITH DIFFERENT INTERNAL PARTIES.

AND IN THIS CASE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND POLICE DEPARTMENT ALSO WEIGH IN ON WHAT'S THE CORRECT BALANCE IN ADDITION TO THE GUIDELINES, WHICH ARE...

WHICH PLANNER DONALD MENTIONED EARLIER.

SO WE DO LOOK AT ALL THE ASPECTS.

WE LOOK AT THE PROPER BALANCE.

IN REGARDS TO SEPARATED BIKE LANES, WE ACTUALLY DO SUPPORT THOSE IN THE RIGHT SCENARIO.

WE LOOK AT THE ENTIRE CORRIDOR BECAUSE,

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AS MENTIONED, WE DON'T WANT TO JUST DO SOMETHING IN ONE SHORT SEGMENT AND THEN HAVE IT TRANSITION TO ANOTHER TYPE OF LANE ALIGNMENT THAT CONFUSES THE USERS.

SO WE ARE, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, WE ARE DOING SEPARATED BIKE LANES ON COLLEGE BOULEVARD BETWEEN CANNON ROAD AND CARLSBAD VILLAGE DRIVE.

WE'RE DOING A SEPARATED CLASS 1 PEDESTRIAN AND BIKE FACILITY ADJACENT TO SAGE CREEK HIGH SCHOOL.

SO JUST WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU WE DO SUPPORT THEM IN THE RIGHT SITUATION.

IN THIS CASE, WE DID CONSULT WITH OUR EMERGENCY RESPONDERS AND FELT THIS IS THE BEST DESIGN FOR THIS ROAD SEGMENT.

THANK YOU.

FURTHER CLARIFYING QUESTIONS OF STAFF AT THIS MOMENT.

COMMISSIONER FOSTER.

YEAH, I JUST HAVE ONE.

SO I DIDN'T REALLY GET A CLEAR ANSWER THERE OF WHY WE'RE NOT DOING IT.

I MEAN, THE RESPONSE WAS WE CONSULTED WITH THE POLICE, WE CONSULTED WITH THESE DEPARTMENTS, BUT WHY EXACTLY ARE WE NOT DOING IT? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME AS, AND I'M NOT AN EXPERT, YOU'RE AN EXPERT IN THIS, BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME BECAUSE TODAY I DROVE FROM OCEANSIDE DOWN TO CARLSBAD.

AND THEN RIGHT WHERE YOU CROSS INTO THE RIGHT WHERE YOU CROSS THE LAGOON RIGHT THERE, THERE'S THE CONCRETE BARRIERS, WHICH PROVIDES SOME PROTECTION TO THE BIKERS, RIGHT? AND THAT SPEED LIMIT ON THAT ROAD IS I'M JUST SPITBALLING HERE, LIKE 35, 40 MILES AN HOUR, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, RIGHT? LIKE THIS SEGMENT OF EL CAMINO IS LIKE IT'S A HIGHWAY, RIGHT? LIKE I WOULDN'T LET MY KIDS RIDE THEIR BIKES ON THAT ROAD.

IT'S WAY TOO FAST, RIGHT? AND SO I'M HAVING A HARD TIME KIND OF LIKE TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND.

WHY DO WE HAVE THOSE CONCRETE BARRIERS IN BETWEEN OCEANSIDE AND CARLSBAD ON THAT ROAD THAT HAS A LOW SPEED LIMIT? I THINK IT'S A SINGLE LANE OR TWO LANE ROAD THERE.

AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO GO THREE LANES.

IT'S MUCH FASTER AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO PROVIDE ANY PROTECTION TO BIKERS.

CAN YOU EXPAND A LITTLE BIT MORE? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW I'M NOT GETTING IT.

YEAH, YEAH, SURE.

AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ENTIRE ROAD SEGMENT.

SO IN THAT EXAMPLE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ESSENTIALLY NOT QUITE FROM VISTA WAY, BUT FROM INSIDE OCEANSIDE'S BOUNDARY DOWN TO STATE STREET.

THERE IS A CLASS 1 FACILITY, AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERENCING.

THE OTHER EXAMPLE, WHICH WE ARE CURRENTLY UNDER DESIGN FOR, IS ON COLLEGE BOULEVARD BETWEEN CANNON ROAD AND CARLSBAD VILLAGE DRIVE.

SO THE REASON WHY WE'RE NOT DOING A SIMILAR TYPE OF DESIGN ON THIS PROJECT IS, AS MENTIONED, IT'S A SMALL SEGMENT OF EL CAMINO REAL.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ENTIRETY, AND IN ADDITION, WE CONSULT WITH OUR EMERGENCY RESPONDERS ON WHAT'S APPROPRIATE IN THIS SITUATION.

WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN DESIGNS OF BUFFERED BIKE LANES AND THEN SEPARATED LIKE A CLASS 1 OR A CLASS 4.

SO THAT'S THE MAIN REASON WHY WE'RE IN THIS CASE.

AND THEN, AGAIN, IF WE WERE TO DESIGN A CHANGE LIKE WE ARE IN COLLEGE BOULEVARD.

WE'D LOOK TO DO THAT FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THAT CORRIDOR.

SO IT'S A DIFFERENT PROJECT.

SO CAN YOU EXPAND WHAT IS A CLASS ONE? I MEAN, I THINK I UNDERSTAND.

SURE.

JUST SO THE PUBLIC AND JUST SO WE CAN ALL UNDERSTAND.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT IS A CLASS ONE? WHAT IS A CLASS FOUR? AND BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION, LIKE WHEN I LOOK AT, LIKE, GOOGLE MAPS RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A BIKE LANE TOWARDS THE SOUTH INTERSECTION OF THE LA COSTA, RIGHT? THERE'S A ON THE WEST SIDE.

THERE'S A BIKE LANE, AND THEN IT'S GOING TO IT TRANSITIONS.

AND WHEN I SAY BIKE LANE, IT'S JUST LIKE A WHITE YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE SPACING AND THERE'S THE WHITE STRIPING.

AND THEN TRANSITIONS TO THE GREEN, YOU KNOW, FILLED IN, LIKE, PAINTED AREA, RIGHT? SO IS THAT CLASS FOUR? AND IF YOU COULD JUST SORRY, I PROBABLY JUMPED THE GUN.

BUT CAN YOU ANSWER WHAT IS A CLASS ONE AND WHAT'S CLASS FOUR? YEAH, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION.

AND SO TO DEFINE WHAT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE IS.

AND SORRY FOR NOT CLARIFYING THAT WHEN I DID ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I WAS USING CALTRAN DESIGNATION.

SO A CLASS 2 BIKE LANE IS WHAT YOU TYPICALLY SEE ON A BIKE ON A ROADWAY WHERE IT'S JUST A STRIPE.

SO IT'S A STRIPE SEPARATING THE VEHICLE LANE FROM THE BIKE LANE.

THAT'S CONSIDERED A CLASS 2.

AND SO THEN WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING NOW IS A BUFFERED CLASS 2.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT'S IN THE CURRENT DESIGN.

CLASS.

ONE IS ACTUALLY A 10-FOOT-WIDE SEPARATED PEDESTRIAN AND BIKE PATHWAY, AND IT'S SEPARATED BY AT LEAST FIVE FEET DISTANCE BETWEEN THE VEHICLE TRAVELING.

SO THAT EXAMPLE THAT YOU MENTIONED ON CARLSBAD BOULEVARD, THAT'S ACTUALLY A CLASS 1 BECAUSE YOU SEE IT'S OVER 10 FOOT WIDE.

IT'S SEPARATED BY FIVE FEET BY THAT CONCRETE MEDIAN, ESSENTIALLY.

AND IT'S SHARED.

BOTH PEDESTRIANS AND BIKES CAN USE THAT AREA.

A CLASS FOUR IS A BIKE LANE THAT IS SEPARATED BY SOME FORM OF A BARRIER.

[00:50:02]

YOU'LL SEE PREFERRED WOULD BE A LANDSCAPE BARRIER, AND IT WOULD BE OVER FIVE FEET AS WELL.

THAT'S PROVIDING GOOD SEPARATION.

YOU DO SEE OTHER...

QUICK BUILD TYPE OF CLASS FLOORS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED AROUND THE COUNTY AND SOME OF OUR ADJACENT AGENCIES AND SOME OF THOSE AGENCIES THAT HAVE EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS AND HIGHER COLLISION RATES.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE CONSIDER, AND WE ARE WATCHING OTHER AGENCIES, THE PERFORMANCE OF ROADWAYS, AND WE'RE MONITORING HOW THEY'RE PERFORMING, AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION FOR ANY FUTURE DESIGNS ON OUR ROADS.

CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT? WHY IS THERE HIGHER COLLISION RATES? I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S ACTUALLY UNCOVERED UNDER THIS AGENDA.

IT MIGHT BE OFF TOPIC.

SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE GOOD TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

WELL, BEFORE YOU ANSWER, LET ME EXPAND ON WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION.

SO WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION IS BECAUSE WHAT YOU WERE JUST SAYING WAS THAT BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THEY USE THANK YOU.

THEY USE THAT CERN TYPE OF CLASS 4, AND AS A RESULT OF THEM USING THAT TYPE THAT YOU'RE ALLUDING TO, THAT THERE'S HIGHER COLLISION RATES THAT THEY'VE EXPERIENCED.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS A CONCERN, RIGHT.

THAT IS A CONCERN, RIGHT.

RIGHT.

AND SO MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, AND PLEASE CHIME IN AFTER I ASK THIS.

SO MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION IS, AND MAYBE YOU'RE NOT IN THE RIGHT POSITION TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

YOU'RE NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO, LIKE, ANSWER THE QUESTION BECAUSE YOU DON'T WORK FOR THEM, RIGHT? BUT MY QUESTION IS, WHY DO YOU THINK THERE'S LIKE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IS THERE HIGHER COLLISION RATES BECAUSE THESE CLASS 4S ARE IN THERE.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK OUT FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, RIGHT, IN THIS CONVERSATION.

AND SO, LIKE, THE NORMAL MIND, LIKE THE AVERAGE JOE, IS LIKE, OKAY, WELL, IF WE HAVE THESE CONCRETE BARRIERS, LIKE, THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THINGS SAFER.

AND IF ANOTHER CITY SAYS, OH, WELL, WE HAVE THESE CONCRETE BARRIERS, BUT NOW WE'VE GOT MORE AUTO ACCIDENTS, LIKE OKAY, WELL, WHY DO YOU GUYS GOT MORE AUTO ACCIDENTS? BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE ROOM TO PULL OVER IF THEY'RE HAVING AN ACCIDENT? LIKE, THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.

BUT PLEASE CHIME IN IF THAT'S IF THAT QUESTION IS OFF TOPIC AND INAPPROPRIATE, YOU KNOW, I RECEIVE IT.

I JUST THANK YOU.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

I GUESS MAYBE WE SHOULD BACK UP A MINUTE.

WHAT BIKE LANES ARE CURRENTLY ON EL CAMINO? WHAT CLASS? THERE'S TYPICALLY MOST OF THEM THAT WE RESURFACED AND RESTRIPED.

THOSE ARE A BUFFERED CLASS 2, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IN THIS SITUATION.

AND THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, WHY WAS IT DETERMINED THAT THE PEDESTRIAN SHOULD BE SEPARATE FROM THE BIKE LANES? RIGHT.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

THANK YOU.

WE LOOKED AT OPTIONS, AND WHEN WE'RE DOING AN OPTION ANALYSIS, IT'S BASICALLY A FEASIBILITY.

ANALYSIS AND WHAT'S INCLUDED IN THAT IS COST.

AND SO IN THIS SITUATION, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT WHAT OPTIONS EXISTED FOR CROSSING THE BRIDGE, WE LOOKED AT THE COST OF WIDENING THE BRIDGE, THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, AND THEN WE LOOKED AT THE OPTION WHICH IS INCLUDED IN THE DESIGN, AND THAT'S SEPARATED PEDESTRIAN PATHWAYS VIA A SEPARATE BRIDGE, AND THAT WAS MORE COST EFFECTIVE.

PLUS, IT CREATES A FURTHER SEPARATION, WHICH IMPROVES THE...

I BELIEVE THE USER EXPERIENCE CROSSING THAT AREA.

YEAH, BUT IT'S ISOLATING THE PEDESTRIANS.

HOW FAR ARE THOSE BRIDGES FROM THE ACTUAL ROADWAY? DO WE HAVE A GRAPHIC, I THINK, IN THERE IN THE PRESENTATION? YEAH, BUT I DON'T SEE A DRAWING.

SO DO YOU HAVE A DRAWING OF THIS? WE HAVE A DESIGN, RIGHT? I THINK IF THE ASSOCIATE ENGINEER, BRANDON MILES, DO YOU HAVE A SCALE DRAWING OR AN APPROXIMATION? YES.

CAN YOU COME UP AND ANSWER THE QUESTION AS FAR AS SEPARATION GOES? I THINK FROM, YEAH, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AT LEAST, IT WOULD PROVE THE USER EXPERIENCE, BUT YOU MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

AND ASSOCIATE ENGINEER BRANDON MILES CAN ANSWER YOUR DISTANCE QUESTION.

MR. MILES.

GOOD EVENING.

BRANDON MILES, CITY OF CARLSBAD PUBLIC WORKS BRANCH.

THIS CROSS-SECTION HERE IS A TYPICAL SECTION OF WHERE THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES ARE LOCATED WITHOUT GOING INTO DETAILED STRUCTURAL CALCULATIONS.

THOSE ARE, I WOULD SAY, SOMEWHAT ACCURATE ON THE DISTANCE.

NOT ONLY ARE THOSE SEPARATED FROM THE BRIDGE, LIKE MR. FRANK JUST MENTIONED, IN TERMS OF FEASIBILITY, THEY'RE ALSO AVOIDING UTILITIES THAT ARE UNDERGROUND.

THIS PROJECT BUNDLES WITH A WATER PROJECT.

SO WE'RE TAKING AN EXISTING OUTDATED WATER LINE THAT IS NOT EXACTLY RECALLING WHICH SIDE WE'RE ON, BUT ON THE EAST SIDE THERE'S A WATER LINE THAT'S OUTDATED THAT WE'RE CONCERNED THAT MAY NOT HAVE A VERY LONG LIFE.

[00:55:01]

SO WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE IT AND ATTACH IT TO THE BRIDGE ON THE EAST SIDE.

AND WE ALSO NEED ACCESSIBILITY FOR OTHER HIGH-PRESSURE GAS LINES, KENDRA MORGAN, SDG&E, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THE MICROPILES, NOT TO GET TOO TECHNICAL, BUT DO GO DOWN QUITE A WAYS, AND WE'RE AVOIDING A LOT OF UTILITIES.

SO THE LOCATIONS OF THOSE PEDESTRIAN RAMPS ARE PRIMARILY BASED ON AVOIDANCE OF.

UTILITIES THAT ARE NOT SHOWN IN THIS GRAPHIC.

THE UTILITIES ARE WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY.

SO ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT GRAPHIC, YOU DO SEE RW, THAT'S RIGHT-OF-WAY.

SO AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT SHOWN IN THIS.

MAYBE ONE DOES SHOW PROTECT A KINDER MORGAN LINE OF 16 INCHES, BUT WE ARE AVOIDING THOSE AND WE'RE STILL STAYING WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY.

WE DID HAVE TO ACQUIRE SOME ADDITIONAL RIGHT-OF-WAY ON THE EAST SIDE TO INSTALL THAT PROPOSED BRIDGE.

AGAIN, WE'RE AVOIDING SOME UTILITIES AND WE'LL BE ATTACHING A WATER LINE TO THAT.

YEAH, BUT I'M STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY THE PEDESTRIANS HAVE TO BE 30 FEET AWAY FROM ACTUAL EMERGENCY VEHICLES.

ROADWAY STUFF.

IT DOESN'T QUITE COMPUTE TO ME BECAUSE HOW LONG IS THIS BRIDGE? MR. MILES? IT GOES OVER KIND OF A SIGNIFICANT CREEK.

IT DOES, YEAH.

AND AGAIN, MAYBE I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION CORRECTLY.

YOU'RE ISOLATING THE PEDESTRIANS, I'M CONCERNED.

YEAH, BUT AGAIN.

AND HOW WOULD AN EMERGENCY VEHICLE GET THERE IF IT'S ONLY EIGHT FEET WIDE? AND YOU'RE 30 FEET AWAY FROM THE ACTUAL ROADWAY.

THAT'S WHAT I'M CONCERNED WITH.

I THINK THAT'S A BIG CONCERN.

I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YES.

I THINK THE FINANCIAL PORTION OF IT IS ATTACHING TO THE EXISTING BRIDGE WAS THE REASON WHY WE SEPARATED THEM AND, AGAIN, AVOIDING THE CONFLICTS OF THE UTILITIES UNDER THE CREEK THERE.

THE DESIGN ENGINEER IS NOT HERE TO SPEAK ON THAT.

OKAY.

SO I CAN ONLY GIVE YOU.

MY UNDERSTANDING OF HOW IT LANDED WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW, BUT WE'LL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

WELL, I'M VERY CONCERNED THAT THE PEDESTRIANS ARE ISOLATED IN THIS SCENARIO IN BOTH SITUATIONS, 20 FEET, 30 FEET.

YOU KNOW, HOW IS AN EMERGENCY VEHICLE GOING TO ACCESS THAT EIGHT-FOOT PATHWAY, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT'S THE LENGTH OF THESE BRIDGES THAT GO ACROSS THAT ROADWAY? YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU'RE...

YOU KNOW, PUTTING A LOT OF PILES IN THE ROAD TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE ROADWAY, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS PLAN SHOULD BE TIGHTENED UP SOMEHOW.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT NEEDS TO BE 50 FEET SEPARATED FROM WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE FOR THE PEDESTRIANS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A SAFETY CONCERN, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S, IT MIGHT BE PRETTY, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SAFE.

MR. MILES, CORRECT ME IF I'M INCORRECT, BUT IS THAT PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE THAT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED, A SUSPENSION BRIDGE FROM THAT WHOLE LENGTH OF THE CREEK? YEAH, IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY A SUSPENSION BRIDGE, BUT IT IS SPANNING THE ENTIRE CREEK TO AVOID ANY ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS.

IT'S A PREFABRICATED TRUSS BRIDGE WITH MICROPILES ON EACH SIDE THAT ARE EMBEDDED DOWN INTO THE HARD ROCK.

AND I THINK THE REASON WHY YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT IS BECAUSE, JUST LIKE YOU SAID, THE CURRENT BRIDGE THAT HAS THE TRAFFIC HAS ALL THE UTILITIES, AND THIS WAY YOU ARE TOTALLY PUTTING A PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE SEPARATE, AND IT'S BASICALLY SPANNING THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE CREEK WITHOUT HAVING ANY IMPACT WHATSOEVER ON THE UTILITIES, THE STREAM WATER, ET CETERA.

SO IT'S PROBABLY.

FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, IDEAL.

THAT WAS THE INTENTION, AND I CAN'T SPEAK FOR SAFETY AND FIRE SERVICES, BUT YES.

COMMISSIONER HUBINGER.

I MEAN, IS IT POSSIBLE THIS IS SAFER FOR PEDESTRIANS? AGAIN, I'M TOM FRANK, TRANSPORTATION DIRECTOR, CITY ENGINEER, AND WE DO REVIEW ALL OF OUR DESIGNS WITH OUR EMERGENCY RESPONDERS, SO BOTH POLICE DEPARTMENT AND FIRE DEPARTMENT.

AND SO IS IT SAFER, IT MIGHT BE YOUR OPINION OR PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD FIND...

AND AGAIN, THIS IS PERSONAL OPINION, BUT SEPARATING SIDEWALKS TYPICALLY IS PREFERRED BY MOST PEDESTRIANS.

I DO HEAR THE COMMISSIONER'S

[01:00:01]

CONCERN OVER SAFETY AND KNOW A FIRE TRUCK COULD NOT, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE WIDTH TO SUSTAIN A FIRE TRUCK, BUT THEY DO HAVE WAYS OF CROSSING THAT TYPE OF DISTANCE.

AND I WOULDN'T, I CAN'T SPEAK TO HOW THEY WOULD ADDRESS A SAFETY CONCERN THERE.

EVERYBODY JUST CREATES WHO'S SAFER.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTIVE CRITERIA WHETHER THIS IS SAFER OR NOT SAFER.

EVERYBODY'S JUST GIVING THEIR OPINION.

IS IT SAFER OR NOT? I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS OR IT ISN'T.

THAT'S, I GUESS, MY POINT.

RIGHT.

SO EVERYBODY HAS AN OPINION ON THAT.

AND, AGAIN, WE DO REVIEW THESE DESIGNS WITH OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT FOR THE EMERGENCY RESPONDERS.

MR. MCDONALD, I HAVE A QUESTION.

IN REGARD TO THE HABITAT MANAGEMENT PLAN, IT INDICATED THAT WITH THAT HABITAT MANAGEMENT PLAN, THE CROSSINGS GOLF COURSE.

COULD YOU GIVE US A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THAT AS TO HOW YOU IDENTIFY OR HOW THE CITY IDENTIFIES THE MITIGATION ASPECT OF THAT LOCATION? THANK YOU.

SURE.

THANK YOU, CHAIR.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF RESPONSES TO THAT.

THE FIRST IS THAT THE PROJECT, THE CURRENT PROJECT HERE, THE EL CAMINO REAL WIDENING IS LOCATED IN THE COASTAL ZONE.

AND BASED ON HABITAT MITIGATION PLAN REQUIREMENTS, PROJECTS IN THE COASTAL ZONE THAT IMPACT HABITATS, SUCH AS COASTAL SAGE, MUST MITIGATE FOR THOSE IMPACTS TO ENSURE NO NET LOSS.

WE CAN'T LOSE ANY HABITAT THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS THERE TODAY.

FOR THIS PROJECT TO PROCEED, WE THEREFORE NEED TO FIND AN AREA TO REPLACE WHAT'S LOST BY THE DEVELOPMENT.

THE CROSSINGS GOLF COURSE IS A GOOD LOCATION FOR THAT BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT.

THE CITY WAS ABLE TO SET ASIDE EXTRA LAND FOR JUST THIS PURPOSE TO ALLOW FOR MITIGATION BECAUSE IT'S ALSO IN THE COASTAL ZONE AND ENSURES THAT NO NET LOSS.

THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

THAT'S IDEAL.

PERFECT.

FURTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? MS. COMMISSIONER MERZ.

YEAH, I THINK I ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

LOOKING AT THAT SLIDE THERE AND THEN THE PREVIOUS EXISTING ONE ON THE SOUTHBOUND ON EL CAMINO REAL, TO ACCOMMODATE THREE LANES, JUST MAKE THAT MEDIAN STRIP JUST A LITTLE BIT NARROWER TO FIT THAT? BECAUSE I NOTICED, YOU KNOW, NOW...

BECAUSE I SHOULD NOTICE I DRIVE BY THERE ON A NORMAL DAY TWICE A DAY, BUT I NOTICE IF YOU HIT THE AERONAUTICAL UNIT, THERE'S AN AERO IN.

AND THEN AS YOU'RE GOING SOUTHBOUND, I THINK THERE'S TWO LANES.

I SEE THREE THERE.

SO THEY JUST TAKE THAT MEETING STRIP AND MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE NARROW, SO NOW YOU HAVE THREE ON THE SOUTHBOUND ACROSS THE BRIDGE.

HOW DID THAT WORK? YEAH, EXACTLY.

AT THE BRIDGE, WE ARE LIMITED BY THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

SO WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY WIDENING THAT BRIDGE.

SO NORTH OF THERE.

OUTSIDE OF THE BRIDGE IMPACT ON THE WEST SIDE, WE WILL BE PHYSICALLY WIDENING AND ADDING THAT THIRD LANE.

THE LANES WILL BE REDUCED.

A LITTLE NARROWER? THEY WILL BE, AND THAT'S ALSO GOING TO HELP CALM TRAFFIC.

WE'RE GOING TO ADD SOME BUFFERS, LIKE MR. FRANK HAD MENTIONED, TO GIVE A LITTLE SPACE FOR THE BICYCLISTS.

AND THEN A NON-CONTIGUOUS SIDEWALK WILL BE ADDED TO GIVE SOME MORE BUFFER BETWEEN THE PEDESTRIANS AND THE VEHICLES.

BUT IN THIS AREA, THE MEDIAN WILL BE NARROWED SLIGHTLY TO ACCOMMODATE THE THREE LANES, WHICH IS OUR...

OUR GENERAL PLAN MANAGEMENT FOR CANADA.

YEAH, THANKS FOR CLARIFYING.

I WAS A LITTLE EMBARRASSED BECAUSE I DRIVE BY THERE TO AND FROM WORK, AND I THINK, WAIT A MINUTE, IT GOES FROM THERE TO THERE, AND THERE'S THREE.

SO, YEAH, I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT IT WAS.

SO THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.

LET ME ADD ONE THING.

FIRST OF ALL, I PERSONALLY LIKE HAVING THOSE TWO BRIDGES FOR THE PEDESTRIANS.

I DRIVE THE STREET EVERY DAY MYSELF, AND YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE HOW MANY PEOPLE FROM OMNI RESORTS ARE WALKING.

TO THE SHOPPING CENTER AND WALKING ON THAT BRIDGE WITH NO BARRIER, NO NOTHING.

THEY'RE WALKING IN THE STREET FOR THAT DISTANCE.

AND SO FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT, I THINK THIS IS AN IDEAL DESIGN FOR THIS.

OTHER THING IS WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING ON THE WEST SIDE, HAVING THOSE CUTOUTS, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE ENJOYMENT OF THE VIEW OF THE LAGOON AND PUTTING THAT DESIGN INTO THE FRAY AS WELL.

I THINK IT'S IDEAL.

I THINK THE DESIGN IS EXCELLENT IN THAT REGARD.

SO YOU'RE SATISFYING BOTH THE EAST AS WELL AS THE WEST SIDE.

FURTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? COMMISSIONER FOSTER? I AGREE WITH CHAIR MEENS ON THE EAST BRIDGE.

ESPECIALLY, YEAH, I MEAN, 2003 COSTA DEL MAR, 2005 COSTA DEL MAR, AND THEN LA CASA RESORT.

SO ALL THOSE STRUCTURES OVER THERE, LIKE THIS IS A NO-BRAINER, ESPECIALLY FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO WALK TO GELSON'S AND EVERYTHING IN THAT SHOPPING CENTER.

SO THAT'S LIKE THE EAST BRIDGE IS A NO-BRAINER, AND IT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED DECADES AGO.

SO I THINK THAT'S EXCELLENT.

I CAN'T REALLY WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THE WEST BRIDGE PERSONALLY.

DO YOU GUYS DO ANY, LIKE I DON'T KNOW, IS THERE ANY DEMAND OR DEBT OR ANYTHING? I UNDERSTAND, YES, THERE'S A SIDEWALK IN THE SOUTH INTERSECTION AND IT STOPS ABRUPTLY.

[01:05:02]

AND I UNDERSTAND, YES, THERE'S A BUS STOP ACROSS FROM OMNI LA COSTA RESORT, RIGHT? AND YOU CAN CROSSWALK TO GET OVER THERE, RIGHT? AND THEN IT STOPS AGAIN, THE SIDEWALK, UNTIL YOU GO FURTHER NORTH.

SO I UNDERSTAND THERE'S TWO SECTIONS OF SIDEWALK THAT DON'T EXIST TODAY.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND IS, IS THERE ANY DEMAND TO SPEND THE MONEY TO BUILD ON THE WEST SIDE OF THAT STREET? BECAUSE, AGAIN, LIKE, MY VIEW IS, WILL PEOPLE USE THAT BRIDGE? LIKE, HECK YEAH, THAT'S GOING TO USE A TON.

WILL PEOPLE, LIKE, IF WE SPEND 10, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH DOES THAT BRIDGE ON THE WEST COST, BUT IF WE SPEND, YOU KNOW, $5 MILLION OR WHATEVER TO BUILD THAT BRIDGE ON THE WEST AND THE SIDEWALK, IS ANYONE ACTUALLY GOING TO WALK FROM LA COSTA ALL THE WAY UP? WELL.

WE HAVE STUDIES THAT SHOW THE DESIRE AND THE NEED FOR PEDESTRIAN ACCESS ON THE WEST SIDE.

AS PART OF THE BATAKITA-SAKOON FOUNDATION COLLABORATION, THEY SHARED WITH US THEIR TRAILS MASTER PLAN, AND THEIR TRAILS MASTER PLAN SHOWS CONNECTIVITY ON THE WEST SIDE.

SO AS MR. DONALD STATED EARLIER, WE ARE IN SUPPORT OF THE TRAILS MASTER PLAN, AND WE HAVE OUR STANDARDS FOR PEDESTRIAN ACCESS ON BOTH SIDES OF EL CAMINO REAL ON ALL OF OUR ARTERIAL STREETS, PALMYRA PARK ROAD.

MELROSE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE OTHER TRAILS THAT WOULD CONNECT INTO THIS IN THE FUTURE THAT VATIKIAS LAGOON FOUNDATION DESIRES AS WELL.

AND WITH THOSE LOOKOUTS, THEY PROVIDE THAT BENEFIT OF HAVING THE VIEW CORRIDOR AND THE THINGS THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE IF YOU WERE ON THE EAST SIDE.

SO, AGAIN, THAT SUPPORTS THE COASTAL COMMISSION'S VIEW IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING THEIR REQUEST FOR BEAUTIFICATION IN THAT AREA.

OKAY.

YEAH, THAT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND THAT.

I DIDN'T SEE THAT PERSPECTIVE, SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MR. MILES.

EXCELLENT.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME? I'LL OPEN NOW OPEN FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

MINUTES CLEAR.

ARE THERE ANY REQUESTS? NO, CHAIR, THERE'S NOT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I WILL CLOSE PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

COMMISSIONERS, FURTHER DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER FITZGERALD.

YEAH, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.

YOU KNOW, I THINK OUR HANDS ARE A LITTLE BIT TIED WITH THE FACT THAT THIS ENTIRE SEGMENT HAS THE BIKE LANES AND HAS THE LIMITATIONS THAT IT HAS, BUT IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THROUGH RESEARCH, WIDENING ROADS REALLY DOES INCREASE CONGESTION AND INCREASES VEHICLE MILES, YOU KNOW, SPEEDS.

SO, SAFETY-WISE, SURE, EVERYONE CAN HAVE THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE.

I THINK IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THROUGH RESEARCH, THOUGH.

ALTERNATIVES TO THIS COULD HAVE BEEN, HONESTLY, NARROWING THE STREETS AND ENCOURAGING A HEALTHIER COMMUNITY, WIDER BIKE LANES.

THAT WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, BIKERS AND CYCLISTS, TRAVELISTS, RODE A LOT.

SO I FEEL LIKE OUR HANDS ARE TIED, SO I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THIS.

AS A WOMAN AT NIGHT, I WOULD NEVER WALK ACROSS THAT BRIDGE.

SO AGAIN, EVERYTHING IS A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE, AND I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO CONSIDER THAT MOVING FORWARD.

WHEN WE'RE DOING THESE PIECEMEAL PROJECTS, IT'S REALLY HARD AS A COMMISSION FOR US TO, YOU KNOW, VOTE AGAINST THIS ONE.

WE OBVIOUSLY WANT MORE COMMUNITY AMENITIES.

BUT AGAIN, IF WE WERE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE WHOLE SEGMENT, I THINK WE WOULD REALLY...

RECONSIDER THE BIKE LANES, THE WALKING, THE LIGHTING, AND REALLY A MEDIAN THAT DOES HAVE, YOU KNOW, LANDSCAPING ARCHITECTURE.

SO AGAIN, I'M IN SUPPORT, BUT I WOULD JUST LIKE TO RECOMMEND FOLKS CONSIDER THAT AS WE CONSIDER MORE PROJECTS ON THIS COMMISSION.

COMMISSIONER MERZ? I RAISED MY HAND.

I GUESS I'LL GO.

SO YEAH, I SUPPORT THE PROJECT.

SO INTERESTINGLY, ON A NORMAL DAY TO WORK, I DRIVE BY HERE ON MY WAY TO AND FROM WORK WHEN I'M GOING INTO THE OFFICE.

I PERSONALLY LIKE THE BRIDGE DESIGN, SEPARATING THE PEDESTRIANS FROM THAT.

SO I THINK IT'S A GREAT DESIGN.

I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF AREAS WHERE, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF FIRST RESPONDERS, YOU NEED TO, YOU KNOW, WALK DISTANCES OVER TERRAIN TO GET TO PEOPLE.

SO I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE AT ALL.

I DO LIKE THE DESIGN.

I THINK IT'S ALSO NOTABLE THAT I APPRECIATE THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION ABOUT, WE TALKED ABOUT SPEED AND LANE WIDENING.

AGAIN, I THINK ALSO, TOO, AS WE LOOK AT IT, WE'RE TAKING A SECTION THAT'S TWO LANES WHEN THERE'S THREE LANES ON EITHER SIDE.

SO IT JUST, I MEAN, IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE CONSISTENCY ACROSS THERE.

AND I THINK IT'S ALSO INTERESTING IN THE COMMENTS, I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT.

YOU KNOW, I DRIVE, I REMEMBER WHEN IT GOES LIKE THAT, AARON, AND I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER HOW MANY LANES THERE ARE, AND THERE ARE TWO, BUT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE NARROWING THE LANES A LITTLE BIT, WHICH WILL SLOW THAT TRAFFIC DOWN.

SO ACTUALLY, I LIKE THE PROJECT, AND I SUPPORT IT, AND I'LL BE VOTING FOR IT.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER HUBINGER.

I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW COMPLICATED THIS PROJECT WAS.

YOU GUYS REALLY JUGGLED A LOT OF THINGS, AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT YOU DID A GREAT JOB.

YOU'RE TRYING TO CUT AND SLICE FIT AND PIECE.

I THINK YOU'VE GOT A GREAT DESIGN, AND I REALLY LIKE THE CLARIFICATION ON THE LAGOON ACCESS FOR THE WEST SIDE.

[01:10:03]

AND THE OTHER THING I FOUND INTERESTING IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SECTION OF EL CAMINO REAL, AND A LOT OF OUR QUESTIONS WERE ABOUT ALL OF EL CAMINO REAL, AND THAT GOT VERY CONFUSING FOR YOU GUYS.

SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THE DESIGN.

I THINK IT'S FANTASTIC.

SO I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

I'D HATE TO SEE THE CITY SPEND A LOT OF THE TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS ON THESE INCREDIBLY ISOLATED PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES.

I THINK IF THEY WERE ALIGNED WITH THE CROSSWALKS AND, YOU KNOW, 10 FEET AWAY AS OPPOSED TO 30 FEET AWAY, MAYBE IT WOULD BE OKAY.

BUT I STILL HAVE...

THE LENGTH AND THE JUST DISTANCE ARE SO ISOLATING THAT, AGAIN, COMMISSIONER FITZGERALD HIT IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD.

A WOMAN WALKING ACROSS THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN AT NIGHT.

THAT'S JUST TOO DANGEROUS.

SO IT SPEAKS TO THE TEAM, OBVIOUSLY, PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.

YOU KNOW, WE APPRECIATE THE INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH YOU'VE DONE ON THE PALEONTOLOGICAL AND ALL OF THE HISTORIC.

RESOURCES, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC 101.

YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN IS THESE SHOULD BE WIDENED SLIGHTLY TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE BIKE LANES, AND THEN AT LEAST YOU'VE GOT SOME, YOU KNOW, MORE PEOPLE USING THOSE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES.

BUT RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE RELYING ON THE FEW PEOPLE FROM THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT COMES FROM THAT STREET, AND THEN...

YOU KNOW, THE LA COSTA PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, BUT THIS IS A LONG BRIDGE, AND I'M AFRAID THAT IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE VERY CLOSE, TO GET TO THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION.

SO I REALLY FEEL THAT THIS IS A DIFFICULT CALL.

I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE A REVISIT OF THE DESIGN TO TIGHTEN THOSE DISTANCES FROM THE ACTUAL ROADWAY.

BUT OTHER THAN THAT...

AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST CONCERN I HAVE.

COMMISSIONER MERZ.

YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING LISTENING TO THE COMMENTS.

AND ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS INTERESTING, THOUGH.

SO IF I'M A PEDESTRIAN WALKING ACROSS THAT BRIDGE, AND THE FEATURES, THE WATER FEATURES, YOU'RE WALKING OVER IT, WALKING OVER IT WITH THAT SEPARATION DOES ALLOW YOU TO ENJOY IT ON BOTH SIDES VERSUS, YOU KNOW, BEING RIGHT BY CARS FLYING BY.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE NEGATIVES, BUT I LOOK AT THAT BRIDGE AND I SEE SOME POSITIVES.

I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK TO THE.

SOME OF THE COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, ON THAT, BUT, I MEAN, IT DOES SEEM, AS A PEDESTRIAN, BEING FURTHER AWAY FROM TRACK VERSUS CLOSER TO IT AND BEING ABLE TO VIEW THE FEATURE OF THE CREEK ON BOTH SIDES, I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THAT AS A NEGATIVE.

THANK YOU.

YEAH, I'M IN FULL SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT.

I THINK THE DESIGN OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES, MR. MILES, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR CLARIFYING.

COMMENTS MADE BY THE BETAKITAS LAGOON FOUNDATION AND THE HABITAT AND ALL THE OTHER ISSUES THAT YOU HAD BROUGHT UP IN REGARD TO THE TRAILS, BECAUSE THAT'S IMPORTANT AND HELPED CLARIFY FOR US.

BUT YET I THINK THE DESIGN ON THE WEST SIDE IS IDEAL.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ON THAT BRIDGE WALKING, YOU KNOW, WILL BE ABLE TO ENJOY THE LAGOON RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW, THOSE BUSHES ARE SO HIGH, YOU BARELY CAN EVEN SEE THE LAGOON WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE STREET, LET ALONE WALK.

AND THEN AGAIN ON THE EAST SIDE, I SEE, LIKE I SAID, I DRIVE THAT EVERY DAY, AND EVERY DAY I SEE AT LEAST ONE PERSON OR MORE WALKING THAT DISTANCE.

AND SO I THINK THE DESIGN AND HAVING IT DESIGNED THE WAY YOU HAVE IT DESIGNED IS IDEAL, AND YOU'RE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION UTILITIES AND ALL THE OTHER GOOD STUFF.

SO I'M IN SUPPORT.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER FOSTER.

I'VE GOT A QUESTION.

IS THERE AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MUCH THOSE BRIDGES ARE GOING TO COST TO BUILD? ABOUT THREE TO FIVE YEARS AGO WE PUT ONE IN AT THE INTERSECTION OF CANNON AND EL CAMINO REAL.IT'S ABOUT $250,000 FOR A PREFABRICATED BRIDGE.

THIS BRIDGE IS A LITTLE LONGER, AND THERE'S TWO OF THEM, AND STEEL HAS BEEN INCREASING.

OUR LATEST ESTIMATE IS $600,000 TO $850,000 EACH.

THAT'S INSTALLATION, FABRICATION, AND DELIVERY.

THEY COME TYPICALLY FROM THE KENTUCKY AREA.

ANY FURTHER CLARIFYING QUESTIONS? OKAY.

AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, ARE YOU READY TO MAKE A MOTION? ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? COMMISSIONER FOSTER.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE WE GO TO VOTE.

I THINK WE INTEND THE PROJECT'S EXCELLENT, AND I THINK THE EAST BRIDGE, AGAIN, IS A NO-BRAINER, AND, YOU KNOW, THE

[01:15:02]

ROAD WIDENING IS A NO-BRAINER.

AND THEN EVEN THE WEST SIDEWALK, I THINK, IS A GREAT IDEA.

I SUPPORT ALL THAT.

MY CONCERN STILL STANDS ON THE BIKE SAFETY.

THAT IS, AGAIN, IN MY OPINION, THAT'S HIGHWAY SPEED ROAD.

AND I PERSONALLY DON'T CARE IF THERE'S NOT, LIKE, THE BARRIERS, YOU KNOW, TWO MILES UP THE ROAD AND TWO MILES DOWN THE ROAD.

I THINK IF WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A PROTECTIVE BARRIER IN A SECTION OF THE ROAD, YOU'VE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.

I MEAN, IF YOU DON'T START HERE, IF YOU DON'T START IN THE NORTH PART OF EL CAMINO IN THE CITY OR THE SOUTH PART, WHERE DO YOU START? YOU'VE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.

BUT I THINK THAT.

IT'S CRAZY FOR ME TO SAY THIS IN MY OPINION, BUT THIS IS THE ONE THING WHERE I AGREE WITH COASTAL COMMISSION ON.

THE COASTAL COMMISSION RECOMMENDED THE BIKE BARRIERS, AND I NEVER THOUGHT I'D EVER SAY I AGREE WITH COASTAL COMMISSION ON ANYTHING.

BUT I AGREE WITH THEM ON THIS.

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE BIKE BARRIERS FOR BIKE SAFETY FOR THE CITY, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO BIKE IN THAT SECTION, AND YOU'VE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.

SO, AGAIN, WHILE I THINK THE INTENT OF THE PROJECT IS GOOD, I WOULD APPROVE THE PROJECT IF WE PUT THOSE BIKE BARRIERS IN THERE TO PROTECT BIKERS IN THAT SECTION.

WITHOUT THAT, MY VOTE WOULD BE NO ON THE PROJECT.

COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO TAKE THESE RESOLUTIONS SEPARATELY, VOTE ON THEM SEPARATELY? THANK YOU FOR THAT, COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

YES, WE COULD TAKE THE RESOLUTIONS AS A VOTE SEPARATELY.

WE WOULD JUST SAY THAT IF RESOLUTION 1 DID NOT PASS, THE RESOLUTION 2 WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE PASSED WITHOUT A CEQA FINDING, BUT THEY COULD BE TAKEN SEPARATELY IN ORDER.

SO ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION THEN IN REGARD TO YOU SAID CEQA? CORRECT.

SO RESOLUTION NUMBER ONE IS RECOMMENDING ADOPTION OF THE INITIAL STUDY, MEDICAID AND DECLARATION.

SO THAT IS SOLELY UPON THE CEQA DOCUMENT THAT WAS PREPARED FOR THIS PROJECT.

RECOMMENDATION RESOLUTION NUMBER TWO IS RECOMMENDING THE ENTITLEMENTS.

SO WHILE THEY COULD BE TAKEN SEPARATELY, RESOLUTION NUMBER TWO COULD NOT BE PASSED WITHOUT RESOLUTION NUMBER ONE BEING PASSED.

I PERSONALLY, I DON'T SEE A REASON TO SEPARATE THE TWO.

COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

I THINK THAT THE DILIGENCE THAT STAFF HAS PROVIDED ON THE INITIAL STUDY FOR THE MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION AND MITIGATION MONITORING PROGRAM IS ADEQUATE, AND I THINK THAT MORE STUDY NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO BE ABLE TO.

APPROVE ALL OF THESE DEVELOPMENT PERMITS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, I THINK THAT IF THERE ISN'T REALLY A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF THE SAFETY OF THOSE BRIDGES, I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PROBLEMATIC SITUATION THAT COULD BE CAUSED WITH THE DESIGN OF THIS.

PROJECT RIGHT NOW WITH THE BRIDGES BEING SO FAR AWAY.

SO I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH APPROVING THE FIRST ONE, BUT NOT APPROVING THE SECOND ONE AT THIS POINT, UNLESS WE CAN GET ASSURANCE FROM THE DESIGNER OR THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM THAT THOSE BRIDGES WOULD BE STUDIED TO BE ABLE TO GET THEM CLOSER TO THE ROADWAY TO POTENTIALLY NOT HAVE SO MUCH DISTANCE BETWEEN.

THE PEDESTRIANS AWAY FROM THE, AND ACCESS FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS.

COMMISSIONER MERZ.

I GUESS I'M A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED.

I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND BECAUSE, I MEAN, JUST IN SIMPLE TERMS, I MEAN, WE HAVE CARS THAT CRASH OFF THE ROAD FROM DISTANCES FURTHER THAN THAT.

FIRST RESPONDERS HAVE TO STOP THEIR VEHICLES AND GO OUT AND GET TO THEM ALL THE TIME.

THAT'S A NORMAL THING THEY DO.

SO I HAVE A HARD TIME MAKING THE FINDINGS JUST BECAUSE IT'S FURTHER FROM THERE THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT FINDING AS A SAFETY THING.

I MEAN, IT JUST SEEMS NORMAL THAT FIRST RESPONDERS OFTENTIMES HAVE TO GATHER VIEWS JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT NEXT TO THE ROADWAY.

SOME I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT FINDING, OR THERE'S A SAFETY ISSUE THERE.

ISN'T THIS A POINT OF ORDER? LET ME ISN'T THIS A POINT OF ORDER THAT WOULD WE VOTE ON THIS, THAT WE WANTED TO SEPARATE OR NOT? WE HAVEN'T DECIDED THAT AT THIS TIME.

NO, NO, I'M ASKING, DOESN'T IT REQUIRE A POINT

[01:20:01]

OF ORDER, A VOTE TO SEPARATE? IT WOULD REQUIRE THAT, YES.

BUT I'M GATHERING INFORMATION, MR. LARDY.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED TO VOTE TO SEPARATE.

THERE COULD BE A MOTION TO ADOPT ONE OF THE RESOLUTIONS, AND THERE COULD BE AN ACTION TAKEN UPON THAT MOTION, AND THAT WOULD BE EITHER AN UP OR DOWN MOTION.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE, WE COULD ALSO DISCUSS, TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE RECESS AND DISCUSS WITH THE APPLICANT IF THEY HAVE ANY RESPONSES TO ANY OF THE QUESTIONS BEING RAISED.

ULTIMATELY, YOU ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY TO THE CITY COUNCIL, SO THEY'RE THE FINAL DECISION MAKER UPON THIS.

AND SO YOU CAN APPROVE IT, YOU CAN RECOMMEND APPROVAL, YOU CAN RECOMMEND DENIAL, OR YOU COULD RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH MODIFICATIONS.

AND THE APPLICANT TEAM, IN THIS CASE PUBLIC WORKS, WOULD NEED TO REVIEW THAT AND HOW THEY WOULD WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

COMMISSIONER HUBINGER? I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

SO I THINK, ARE YOU, ANY MORE FURTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? OKAY.

DO I HAVE A MOTION? COMMISSIONER BURROWS? MOTION TO APPROVE PROJECT AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF.

DO I HAVE A, THAT MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BURROWS, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MERZ.

PLEASE VOTE.

APPROVED.

IT'S APPROVED FIVE WITH TWO NO'S.

THANK YOU, STAFF.

[3. TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE PROTECTION AND CONSULTATION PRESENTATION]

I'LL NOW CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

MR. LARDY, WILL YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE ITEM NUMBER THREE? YES, THANK YOU.

ITEM NUMBER THREE IS A DEPARTMENT REPORT.

IT IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING.

THIS IS PART OF OUR ONGOING WORK PROGRAM.

WHICH IS TO RETURN ON A QUARTERLY BASIS WITH INFORMATION RELATED TO A TOPIC AREA FOR THE COMMISSION.

SO THIS IS THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO RECEIVE THE REPORT.

HERE TO GIVE THE STAFF PRESENTATION IS ROB BUFORD, PRINCIPAL PLANNER.

JOINING HIM IS NIKKI FALVEY WITH HELIX ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNING.

AND I'LL ALSO BE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WITH THE CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU, MR. BUFORD.

GOOD EVENING, CHAIR MEENS AND COMMISSIONERS.

I'M PRINCIPAL PLANNER ROB EFORD, AND TONIGHT I'LL BE LEADING A PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON ITEM NO.

03, TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES PROTECTION AND TRIBAL CONSULTATION.

WITH ME TONIGHT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE DISCUSSION ARE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR ERIC LARDY AND NIKKI FALVEY, CULTURAL RESOURCES PROJECT MANAGER WITH HELIX ENVIRONMENTAL.

HERE ARE THE TOPICS THAT WE'LL COVER TONIGHT IN TONIGHT'S INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATION.

WE'LL PAUSE AFTER EACH OF THE ITEMS, SO PLEASE HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS FOR EACH OF THOSE, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A BACK AND FORTH THROUGHOUT.

SO THE FOUR TOPICS THAT WE'LL BE HITTING ON ARE KEY TERMS AND DEFINITIONS, NOTABLE LAWS AND POLICIES, PLAYERS AND GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES, AND THEN IMPLEMENTATION.

WE REALLY WANTED THIS PRESENTATION TO BE A LEVEL-SETTING EXERCISE.

DIFFERENT OF YOU HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE AND COME INTO IT WITH DIFFERENT KNOWLEDGE, SO I APOLOGIZE.

HOW MUCH OF THIS MAY BE REVIEW FOR SOME OF YOU, BUT WE DID WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTOOD SOME OF THESE TERMS AS WE MOVE THROUGH THE TOPIC.

SO THE FIRST TERM THAT WE WANTED TO DEFINE WAS A FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED TRIBE.

WE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT HOW GOVERNMENT REGULATES TRIBAL RESOURCES AT ALL DIFFERENT LEVELS, AND WE'RE GENERALLY GOING TO BE MOVING FROM FEDERAL TO STATE AND THEN TO LOCAL.

ALL THREE PLAY DIFFERENT ROLES, AND IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF PROJECT THAT THE PC MAY BE CONSIDERING.

BUT THE FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED TRIBE OF THE DEPARTMENT THAT DEALS WITH THAT IS THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, AND THOSE ARE TRIBES THAT HOLD A GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES AND ARE ELIGIBLE FOR FUNDING, FEDERAL FUNDING AND SERVICES.

NOW MOVING ON TO THE STATE LEVEL, WE HAVE WHAT'S CALLED CALIFORNIA NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBE, OR YOU MAY SEE THE ACRONYM CNA SOMETIMES.

THAT'S WHAT THIS IS REFERRING TO.

IT'S A NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBE LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA.

THAT IS ON THE CONTACT LIST MAINTAINED BY THE NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE COMMISSION.

SO YOU MAY ALSO SEE NAHC.

AGAIN, THIS IS A SEPARATE ENTITY FROM THE FEDERAL DEFINITION.

AND THEN WITHIN THAT, ALSO AS IDENTIFIED BY THE NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE COMMISSION, YOU MAY SEE AN ACRONYM TCA THAT STANDS FOR

[01:25:01]

TRADITIONALLY AND CULTURALLY AFFILIATED TRIBE.

AND WE'LL SPEAK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP OF THESE THREE TERMS NEXT.

BUT WHAT THAT MEENS IS THAT IS...

A TRIBE THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH A PARTICULAR GEOGRAPHIC AREA WITHIN CALIFORNIA.

OBVIOUSLY, IT'S BEING DEFINED BY A CALIFORNIA ENTITY.

AND IT ALSO CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY A LEAD AGENCY.

SO HERE'S THAT GRAPHIC JUST TO HELP EXPLAIN THAT THREE SEPARATE DEFINITIONS, BUT SOMETIMES THEY CAN APPLY.

ALL THREE COULD APPLY TO A PARTICULAR TRIBE, OR MAYBE ONLY ONE CAN APPLY TO A PARTICULAR TRIBE.

AND SO EACH ONE MAY CARRY DIFFERENT ALLOWANCES OR RESPONSIBILITIES WHEN WE AS THE CITY ARE INTERACTING WITH THESE TRIBES.

JUST AS A VISUAL REPRESENTATION, AS WE TALK ABOUT TRIBAL RESOURCES, TRIBAL TERRITORY, ET CETERA, OBVIOUSLY HERE IS THE MODERN-DAY EXTENT OF RESERVATIONS AND TERRITORIES IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

SO YOU CAN SEE HIGHLIGHTED IN RED THERE LOS ANGELES TO THE NORTH, CARLSBAD AND SAN DIEGO.

THERE ARE A NUMBER.

RESERVATIONS THAT ARE WITHIN OUR REGION.

BUT THIS IS JUST THE MODERN DAY PICTURE OF THE TRIBAL TERRITORIES.

THIS IS FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES.

THERE'S NOT ONE MAP THAT IS THE RULE, BUT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE TERRITORIES THAT ARE COVERED BY SOME OF THE LARGER TRIBAL GROUPS.

AND THEN WE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT SOME OF THE DIFFERENT BANDS.

SO TRIBE CAN SLIDE UP OR DOWN IN TERMS OF HOW LARGE OF A PEOPLE GROUP IT INCLUDES.

BUT YOU SEE SOME OF THE LARGER NAMES HERE, THE LUISENO, THE KUMEYAAY, THE KUPEÑO, THE HUANYENO, AND THAT ACTUALLY THERE'S SUBDIVISIONS THAT FALL WITHIN THAT.

BUT YOU CAN SEE THE OVERLAPPING COLORS HERE AND HOW THAT RELATES TO OUR REGION.

SO THEN AS WE TALK ABOUT WHAT IS A CULTURAL RESOURCE, MANY PEOPLE ARE THINKING THAT'S JUST A THING, THAT'S A POT, THAT'S A SHELL, THAT'S A GRINDING STONE.

BUT AS IS DEFINED BY PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE, AND I INCLUDED THOSE TO BE A FUTURE REFERENCE FOR YOU GUYS, IF YOU WANT TO DIG INTO ANY OF THE GOVERNMENT CODE OR PUBLIC RESOURCE CODE, THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION IN THERE THAT THE CITY IS SUBJECT TO, BUT THAT'S WHERE THIS IS COMING FROM.

SO AS DEFINED BY PUBLIC RESOURCE CODE, TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE IS A SITE, IT'S A FEATURE, IT'S A PLACE, CULTURAL LANDSCAPES, SACRED PLACES, AS WELL AS OBJECTS THAT HAVE THE CULTURAL VALUE TO THOSE CALIFORNIA NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES.

AND THEN IT IS IMPORTANT WHETHER IT'S LISTED OR ELIGIBLE FOR LISTING, EITHER IN NATIONAL OR STATE REGISTRIES.

AND THEN SECONDLY, THE RESOURCES THAT THE LEAD AGENCY DETERMINES.

AGAIN, WE HAVE SOME AGENCY IN WHAT WE DEFINE AS A CULTURAL RESOURCE IN OUR DISCRETION, BUT IT DOES NEED TO BE SUPPORTED BY SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

AND WE'LL BE TALKING A LOT ABOUT HOW THIS OVERLAPS WITH CEQA.

SO SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS ONE OF THOSE TERMS THAT YOU SEE IN BOTH PLACES.

THEN TRIBAL CONSULTATION IS, AGAIN, THIS LARGELY FOR US IN CALIFORNIA RELATES TO CEQA, BUT IT'S THE MEANINGFUL AND THE TIMELY PROCESS OF SEEKING, DISCUSSING, AND CONSIDERING CAREFULLY THE VIEWS OF OTHERS IN A MANNER THAT'S AWARE OF AND RECOGNIZES DIFFERENT PARTIES' CULTURAL VALUES.

AND THEN REALLY SEEKING AGREEMENT IS THE GOAL.

THERE'S PHRASES ABOUT MAKING A GOOD FAITH EFFORT.

THERE'S NOT A HARD AND FAST OF WHAT EXACTLY CITIES HAVE TO ACCEPT.

IT'S JUST THE PROCESS THAT WE GO THROUGH WHEN WE, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND, RECEIVE INFORMATION, AND THEN HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW WE COULD MOVE FORWARD.

AND THEN TRIBAL MONITORING IS SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS HEAR A LOT ABOUT IN MITIGATION MEASURES AND OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENTS THAT YOU MAY READ.

BUT BASICALLY, THIS MONITORING PIECE MAY BE INCLUDED IN PRE-EXCAVATION AGREEMENTS, CEQA MITIGATION MEASURES, AS I JUST MENTIONED, OR IN PROJECT CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IS ANOTHER PLACE YOU MAY SEE THAT.

AND THAT WOULD BE WHERE IDENTIFIED TRIBAL REPRESENTATIVES SUPERVISE USUALLY GROUND-DISTURBING ACTIVITIES.

AND THE POINT HERE IS REALLY TO PROVIDE SORT OF A BACKSTOP OR A SAFETY VALVE IF THERE ARE TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES OR TCRS THAT ARE FOUND THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY UNIDENTIFIED.

WEREN'T KNOWN TO BE ON THE SITE.

SO I'LL PAUSE THERE AND JUST SEE, BASED ON THOSE KEY TERMS, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT EVERYTHING, BUT DID ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS TO START? COMMISSIONERS? GOOD TO MOVE ON? GREAT.

OKAY.

THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO PLAYERS AND GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES.

SO THE FIRST, AGAIN, STARTING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, IS THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, SO THE BIA.

IT WAS ESTABLISHED IN THE 1800S AS A FEDERAL AGENCY.

IT'S HEADQUARTERED IN WASHINGTON, D.C., ALTHOUGH IT HAS OFFICES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

AND IT HAS HISTORICALLY ENFORCED FEDERAL POLICY AND LED EFFORTS TO ASSIMILATE NATIVE AMERICANS INTO AMERICAN SOCIETY.

THAT'S A MATTER OF HISTORY AND

[01:30:01]

LAW, OF WHAT THEIR MISSION WAS HISTORICALLY.

THAT MISSION HAS CHANGED FOCUS AND HAS SHIFTED INTO...

FOCUSES LIKE ENHANCING QUALITY OF LIFE, PROMOTING ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES, AS WELL AS OVERSIGHT OF NATIVE AMERICAN TRUST ASSETS.

THEN MOVING TO THE STATE LEVEL, I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED THE NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE COMMISSION.

SO THIS WAS ESTABLISHED IN THE 70S BY THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE.

ITS OFFICES ARE IN SACRAMENTO.

AND IT IS THE PRIMARY STATE AGENCY FOR IDENTIFYING AND CATALOGING NATIVE AMERICAN CULTURE RESOURCES.

AND THEN ALSO WHERE WE OR OUR CONSULTANTS INTERFACE.

WITH THE STATE AND WITH THE NAHC.

A LOT OF IT RELATES TO, AGAIN, THE IDENTIFICATION OF WHO ARE CARLSBAD'S TRADITIONALLY AND CULTURALLY AFFILIATED TRIBES.

AND THEN ALSO SHOULD HUMAN REMAINS BE IDENTIFIED IN IDENTIFYING WHO IS THE MOST LIKELY DESCENDANT, WHICH GETS INTO DIFFERENT PROCESSES THAT ARE DICTATED.

BUT THAT'S A ROLE THAT THE NAHC MAY PLAY AS WELL.

SO THEN THE CALIFORNIA OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION, ALSO CREATED IN THE 70S.

BASED OUT OF SACRAMENTO.

IT IMPLEMENTS SECTION 106 OF THE NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION ACT, AND THEN IT IDENTIFIES, EVALUATES, AND REGISTERS HISTORIC PROPERTIES AND HAS AN OVERSIGHT ROLE AS FAR AS COMPLIANCE.

THAT ALSO HAS A BRANCH THAT IS MORE OUTWARD-LOOKING AS FAR AS EDUCATION AND PUBLIC AWARENESS AND LEADERSHIP INITIATIVES.

AND I DO WANT TO JUST TOUCH BRIEFLY, WE DO WANT TO BRING THIS DOWN, IT'LL BE TOWARDS THE END, BUT BRING IT BACK TO WHAT ARE, WHAT MATTERS TO CARLSBAD AND WHAT MATTERS TO YOU ALL IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, AS OF NOW, IT'S A POINT IN TIME, SO IT MAY CHANGE.

BUT OUR LIST OF THE TRADITIONALLY AND CULTURALLY AFFILIATED TRIBES WITHIN THE PROJECTS THAT WOULD OCCUR WITHIN CARLSBAD INCLUDES 21 DIFFERENT TRIBES.

18 OF THOSE ARE FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED, AND THREE OF THEM ARE NON-FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED.

SO AGAIN, DEPENDING ON THE PROJECT OR THE TRIBE, THERE WOULD BE DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITIES.

HOWEVER, SO WE HAVE THAT MANY.

OUR MOST ACTIVE CONSULTING TRIBES THAT WE DEAL WITH ON MOST PROJECTS ARE THE RINCON BAND OF LUISANO INDIANS AND THEN THE SAN LUIS REY BAND OF MISSION INDIANS.

SO I'LL PAUSE THERE ON ANY OF THOSE.

ANY QUESTIONS ON THE PLAYERS? GOOD? COMMISSIONERS? NO? CONTINUE.

OKAY.

EXCELLENT.

OKAY.

I THINK I'M TAKING IT OVER FROM HERE.

THANK YOU, NIKKI.

THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING ME, COMMISSIONERS.

THERE ARE MANY...

YOUR NAME PLEASE.

OH I'M SO SORRY.

NIKKI FALVEY WITH HELIX ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNING.

THANK YOU.

THERE ARE MANY NATIONAL, STATE, AND CITY POLICIES AND LAWS THAT ARE REGARDING TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND USING TO IMPLEMENT THESE GUIDELINES.

THESE INCLUDE THE NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION ACT.

WHICH INCLUDES PROCEDURES FOR FEDERAL AGENCIES TO IDENTIFY, EVALUATE, ASSESS EFFECTS, AND PROVIDE TREATMENT TO ADVERSE EFFECTS ON HISTORIC PROPERTIES FROM FEDERAL UNDERTAKINGS.

AND THESE CAN INCLUDE ITEMS OF TRADITIONAL RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL IMPORTANCE TO A NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBE IF IT MEETS THE NATIONAL REGISTER CRITERIA.

AND THESE ALSO APPLY WHEN A PROJECT RECEIVES FEDERAL FUNDING OR WHEN IT REQUIRES A FEDERAL PERMIT.

SO NOT.

NOT THE MAJORITY OF THE PROJECTS THAT THE CITY SEES, BUT OCCASIONALLY.

ROB, WOULD YOU MIND MOVING ON? THANK YOU.

FOR CEQA, FOR STATE POLICIES, CEQA I KNOW WAS MENTIONED IN THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION HERE AS WELL, BUT IT IS WHAT WE CALL AN UMBRELLA ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY, SO IT DOES COVER THINGS LIKE CULTURAL RESOURCES, TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES, BIOLOGICAL RESOURCES, SOUND.

VISUAL IMPACTS, ALL THAT KIND OF THING.

AND IT DOES REQUIRE MITIGATION TO REDUCE IMPACTS TO BELOW THE LEVEL OF SIGNIFICANCE WHERE FEASIBLE WITHIN A PROJECT.

AND THIS DOES INCLUDE REQUIREMENTS FOR TRIBAL CONSULTATION, BOTH IN TERMS OF SCOPE AND TIMING.

SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF LITTLE SIDE POLICIES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT TRIBAL CONSULTATION.

ONE OF THEM IS SB18, AND THIS REALLY JUST PERTAINS TO GENERAL PLAN AND SPECIFIC PLAN ADOPTION AND AMENDMENTS.

AND IT REQUIRES CEQA LEAD AGENCIES TO CONSULT WITH TRIBES ON OPEN SPACES RELATED TO PROTECTION OF TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES.

SO THIS DOES HAPPEN DURING THE CEQA REVIEW PROCESS.

PROCESS.

AB 52 IS REALLY THE BIG ONE THAT WE DEAL WITH MOST AND THIS IS A CONSULTATION LAW THAT IS FOR CERTAIN CEQA DOCUMENTS AND

[01:35:03]

TRIBES MUST OPT IN TO BE ON A AGENCY'S LIST FOR AB 52 CONSULTATION.

ONCE A TRIBE DOES OPT IN, A LEAD AGENCY MUST PROVIDE NOTICE.

AND OFFER CONSULTATION WITHIN 14 DAYS OF THE START OF A PROJECT OR BY APPLICATION COMPLETENESS.

A TRIBE MUST ACCEPT THE CONSULTATION WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THIS, AND THEN CONSULTATION MUST BEGIN WITHIN 30 DAYS FROM THE NOTIFICATION OF ACCEPTANCE.

CURRENTLY, CARLSBAD HAS FOUR TRIBES THAT HAVE ACCEPTED.

CONSULTATION ON THE AB 52 LIST, AND THESE INCLUDE THE CAHUILLA BAND OF INDIANS, THE MESA GRANDE BAND OF DEGUENO MISSION INDIANS, THE RINCON BAND OF LUISENO INDIANS, AND THE SAN LUIS REY BAND OF MISSION INDIANS.

SO ROB MENTIONED EARLIER TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES AND THAT THESE HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT.

NOW, THERE ARE FOUR CRITERIA UNDER CEQA FOR THE SIGNIFICANCE OF A RESOURCE.

AND THESE WOULD BE IF IT IS ASSOCIATED WITH AN EVENT OR PERSON THAT IS IMPORTANT TO LOCAL, STATE, OR NATIONAL HISTORY OR PATTERNS OF HISTORY.

SO THIS COULD BE LIKE THE FRASER'S MINERAL WELL IN CARLSBAD, WHICH WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PATTERN OF MINERAL WATER DISCOVERY HERE IN CARLSBAD THAT DID LEAD TO AN INFLUX OF TOURISM IN THE CITY.

IT IS ALSO SIGNIFICANT IF IT EMBODIES A DISTINCTIVE CHARACTERISTIC.

CHARACTERISTICS OF A TYPE, PERIOD, REGION, OR METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION.

IF IT IS THE WORK OF A MASTER OR POSSESSES HIGH ARTISTIC VALUE.

SO AN EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE TWIN ENDS IN THE VILLAGE WITH THAT BEAUTIFUL QUEEN ANT ARCHITECTURE.

AND THEN THE FOURTH CRITERIA IS SIGNIFICANCE.

SOMETHING IS CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT IF IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO YIELD INFORMATION ABOUT LOCAL, STATE, OR NATIONAL HISTORY.

SO A LOT OF TIMES THIS IS WHERE TRIBAL AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL RESOURCES FALL INTO PLAY.

THIS CAN BE SITES LIKE AREAS WITH ROCK ART OR OTHER SYMBOLISM THAT WE MAY NOT HAVE MUCH INFORMATION ON THAT ARE UNIQUE AND COULD PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION.

IT COULD BE PLACES, SITES WITH DATABLE MATERIAL THAT COULD HELP US KNOW MORE ABOUT THE PEOPLING OF THE AMERICAS, THE FIRST INHABITATION OF THE CALIFORNIA OR THE UNITED STATES.

IT COULD BE AREAS OF CULTURAL INTERACTION, SUCH AS MISSIONS AND VILLAGE SITES.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT EXAMPLES OF THOSE.

AND AS ROB MENTIONED EARLIER, FOR TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES IN PARTICULAR, THEY HAVE TO MEET ONE OF THESE FOUR CRITERIA AND ALSO BE CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT TO A TRIBE THROUGH MEANINGFUL CONSULTATION.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, NIKKI.

THANK YOU.

SO THAT WAS A LOT OF THE TECHNICAL ITEMS THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED, AGAIN, LARGELY WHEN WE'RE DOING OUR ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENTS.

SO WE WANTED TO BOIL IT DOWN HERE OF WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PROXIES, WHAT ARE THE RULES OF THUMB OF WHEN THE TRIBES ARE USUALLY CONCERNED OR THINK THAT THERE MAY BE TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES PRESENT.

SO THIS LIST HERE IS A VERY SHORT LIST, BUT WHAT ARE THE ACTIVITIES OR THE AREAS THAT ARE MOST OF INTEREST TO THEM? I MENTIONED EARLIER THE GRADING AND THE GROUND DISTURBING ACTIVITIES.

ANYTHING THAT'S GOING BELOW THE SURFACE, AND WE'VE SEEN ANYTHING FROM A COUPLE INCHES.

IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE FEET AND FEET.

SO GENERALLY THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THEY ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION ON.

ANYTHING THAT'S IN A SHORELINE OR A WATERWAY AREA.

I THINK ANYTHING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUITABLE FOR HABITATION THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

BUT OF COURSE THAT USUALLY IS NEAR WATER.

SO WE SEE INCREASED INTEREST AND INCREASED RESOURCES THAT HAVE BEEN FOUND IN THOSE AREAS BEFORE.

AS I MENTIONED, AREAS WITH PREVIOUSLY DISCOVERED RESOURCES.

SO THEY TEND TO HAPPEN IN THE SAME AREAS OR IN CERTAIN PATTERNS ACROSS THE TERRAIN.

SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THEY WANT MORE INFORMATION ON.

OF COURSE, ANYTHING THAT IS RELATED TO HUMAN REMAINS OR FUNERARY ITEMS ARE LIKE SOME OF THE MOST SENSITIVE ITEMS. THE LAW SPEAKS TO THAT SPECIFICALLY, AND OUR GUIDELINES THAT WE HAVE, WE'LL TOUCH ON THAT IN A MINUTE, HAVE SPECIAL SECTIONS SPECIFICALLY FOR HUMAN REMAINS OR FUNERARY ITEMS. AND THEN ALSO MOVING BEYOND JUST, AGAIN, THE THINGS THAT MAY BE IN THE GROUND, ALSO OF INTEREST TO THE DIFFERENT TRIBES MAY BE DIFFERENT SPACES OR TRADITIONAL OR RITUAL ACTIVITY AREAS.

SO SOME OF THOSE MAY OCCUR ALONG THE BEACH.

SOME OF THOSE MAY OCCUR WHEREVER THROUGHOUT THE CITY FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, WHETHER IT'S RELIGIOUS OR OTHERWISE.

SO THEN JUST TO TOUCH ON OUR

[01:40:02]

LOCAL PLANS AND PROGRAMS AND WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT CULTURAL RESOURCES.

SO THE GENERAL PLAN DOES TALK ABOUT TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES AND CULTURAL RESOURCES, BUT AT A HIGH LEVEL, WHICH IS COMMENSURATE WITH WHAT A GENERAL PLAN DOES.

BUT CHAPTER 4, OR THE OPEN SPACE CONSERVATION AND RECREATION ELEMENT, DOES LOOK AT THE SYNERGY BETWEEN PROVIDING OPEN SPACES THAT ALSO CAN THEN PRESERVE RESOURCES THAT MAY BE WITHIN THOSE LANDS.

THE ARTS, HISTORY, CULTURE, AND EDUCATION ELEMENT, WHICH IS CHAPTER 7, IT DOES HAVE POLICIES THAT SPEAK TO BOTH CULTURAL HISTORIC RESOURCES AS WELL AS TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES.

IT DOES HAVE POLICIES THAT INFORMED OUR CURRENT EXISTING TRIBAL CULTURAL PALEONTOLOGICAL GUIDELINES AND THEN ALSO DOES REQUIRE PROTECTION OF RESOURCES AND ENCOURAGES EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.

OUR LOCAL COASTAL PROGRAM IS ANOTHER LAYER OF PROTECTION THAT IMPLEMENTS THE COASTAL ACT WITHIN THE COASTAL ZONE OF THE CITY.

SO THE SECTIONS OR THE SEGMENTS OF THE LOCAL COASTAL PROGRAM THAT HAVE THESE STATEMENTS AND POLICIES ARE THE MELLO 1 AND MELLO 2.

SPEAK TO CEQA FOR IMPACTS TO MITIGATION FOR ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND PALEONTOLOGICAL RESOURCES.

I'LL MAKE ONE MORE TERMINOLOGY CLARIFICATION, AND NIKKI COULD GO INTO THIS IF MORE INFORMATION IS NEEDED.

BUT AS I UNDERSTAND IT, ARCHAEOLOGICAL IS SORT OF A TERM THAT IN THE PAST HAS BEEN APPLIED TO BOTH.

PRE-CONTACT AND POST-CONTACT, MEANING WESTERN CONTACT OF THE NATIVE PEOPLE'S RESOURCES.

SO WHEN YOU SEE ARCHAEOLOGICAL, THAT REALLY COULD APPLY TO BOTH, ALTHOUGH IN MORE RECENT LEGISLATION AND PLANS, THEY GET MORE SPECIFIC OF WHAT WOULD BE UNIQUE TO A TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE VERSUS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE POST-CONTACT.

THE WEST BATIKITOS SEGMENT DOES INCLUDE A REQUIREMENT FOR A PROGRAM OF PRESERVATION OR IMPACT MITIGATION FOR ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITES.

AND THEN THE NORTH COAST.

CORRIDOR PROJECTS HAVE TO REMAIN CONSISTENT WITH A PREVIOUS PLAN THAT WAS PASSED FOR RESOURCE ENHANCEMENT RELATED TO ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND PALEO RESOURCES.

AND I'LL JUST CALL OUT ONE PIECE IN PARTICULAR OF THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE AS WE TALK ABOUT CEQA.

A BIG PIECE OF CEQA IS WHETHER IT APPLIES, WHETHER THE PROJECT IN FRONT OF YOU IS ACTUALLY DEFINED AS A PROJECT UNDER CEQA, OR IF IT QUALIFIES UNDER A CERTAIN NUMBER OF EXEMPTIONS.

FROM CEQA, AND EXAMPLES OF THAT WOULD BE A STATUTORY OR CATEGORICAL EXEMPTION.

BUT THE SUB-SUBPOINT TO THE EXEMPTIONS ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE EXEMPTIONS.

AND SO CHAPTER 19 OF OUR MUNICIPAL CODE DOES INCLUDE TWO EXCEPTIONS TO EXEMPTIONS THAT GO A LITTLE BIT FARTHER THAN WHAT CEQA LANGUAGE USES.

SO THE SUB-POINTS THERE IS IF A PROJECT HAS GRADING OR CLEARING AFFECTING SENSITIVE SPECIES OR HABITATS.

OR ARCHAEOLOGICAL OR CULTURAL RESOURCES, THAT WOULD BE A REASON FOR IT NOT TO QUALIFY FOR A CEQA EXEMPTION.

AND THEN YOU SEE THE SECOND ONE THERE IS PROJECTS AFFECTING WETLANDS, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, UNSTABLE SOILS, OR OTHERWISE REQUIRING SPECIAL REVIEW.

AND SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT EACH TEST, WHEN YOU SEE A DRAFT EXEMPTION COME BEFORE YOU, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT STAFF HAVE PREPARED THE FINDINGS FOR TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE DO NOT APPLY.

AND THEN VERY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES, THE CITY HAS A COUNCIL POLICY ON THIS THAT WAS ADOPTED IN 2016.

IT REFERENCES WHAT THEN WAS THE CURRENT GUIDELINES.

SO THE CITY ACTUALLY ESTABLISHED BACK IN 1990 CULTURAL GUIDELINES THAT WAS A HIGHER LEVEL, MORE GENERIC SET OF GUIDELINES FOR THESE TYPES OF RESOURCES.

BUT WE HAD HAD THEM SINCE THE 90S.

AND, OF COURSE, THE GENERAL PLAN POLICIES THAT WE JUST REVIEWED.

IT DID PROVIDE POLICY DIRECTION AT THAT TIME TO DO AN UPDATE OF THE GUIDELINES, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT NEXT.

AND THE PURPOSE OR THE GOAL OF THIS POLICY WAS TO AVOID OR SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCE IMPACTS TO TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES AND IMPROVE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE TRIBES.

WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE TRIBES IS THAT THEY HOLD A GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CITY.

THEY'RE NOT JUST A STAKEHOLDER, THAT THEY ARE A PEER GOVERNMENT IN THE CONTEXT OF CONSULTATION.

SO AS I MENTIONED, WE DO HAVE OUR OWN SET OF GUIDELINES.

WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW JURISDICTIONS IN THE COUNTY THAT HAS SOMETHING SPECIALIZED LIKE THIS, AND IT REALLY IS MEANT TO PROVIDE PREDICTABILITY TO THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE TO STAFF, TO APPLICANTS, TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THESE STANDARDS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FROM ALL THESE DIFFERENT PLACES ARE APPLIED EQUALLY AND EQUITABLY EACH TIME.

BUT THEN ALSO IT GOES A LITTLE BIT FARTHER TO SAY, HOW DO WE AS A CITY SPECIFICALLY WANT TO TREAT OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRIBES? SO AS I MENTIONED, THE FIRST SET WAS IN 1990.

COUNCIL POLICY DIRECTED THE UPDATE IN 2016, AND SO THERE WAS AN UPDATE IN 2017.

AND JUST TO, AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, HIGHLIGHT WHAT CHANGED IS WE UPDATED THE LANGUAGE ABOUT REGULATORY

[01:45:01]

CHANGES.

A LOT HAPPENED IN 27 YEARS, AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE.

PROVIDED DIRECTION TO THE PREPARING OF SUPPORTING REPORTS.

NIKKI AND HER COMPANY DO A LOT OF THOSE TECHNICAL STUDIES FOR US.

AND THEN IT STANDARDIZED REVIEW AND NOTICING PROCEDURES, AND THEN IT ALSO ESTABLISHED SOME CLEAR TIMELINES.

THE STATE LAWS AS IT RELATES TO CONSULTATION ARE PRETTY GENERIC TO ALLOW FLEXIBILITY, BUT THIS ESTABLISHED SOME ADDITIONAL TIMELINES.

SO THERE, I KNOW THAT WAS A MEATY SECTION, A LOT IN THERE.

ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE WE MOVE TO THE LAST SECTION ON IMPLEMENTATION? OKAY, CONTINUE.

WE'RE GOOD? OKAY, GREAT.

THE SO WHAT? WE FINALLY GOT THERE.

SO FOR IMPLEMENTATION, JUST WANTED TO BOIL IT DOWN FOR YOU GUYS OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THESE TERMS AND DOCUMENTS REGISTER WITH YOU, BUT HOW WILL THE PC INTERFACE WITH ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE? SO THE BIGGEST ONE IS CEQA.

YOU'RE GOING TO SEE TECHNICAL STUDIES AS EXHIBITS OR APPENDICES TO DOCUMENTS.

ONE OF THE BIG ONES THAT YOU'LL SEE IS CULTURAL RESOURCE ASSESSMENTS.

AND SO THOSE WILL GO IN THERE AND SAY, HOW DID WE DETERMINE IF THERE WAS A LOW LIKELIHOOD OF CULTURAL RESOURCES? OR AS NIKKI WAS TALKING ABOUT, IF SIGNIFICANCE WAS ESTABLISHED OR NOT.

THOSE ARE REALLY WHERE ALL THE WORK GETS DONE AND THE PROFESSIONALS DOCUMENT THEIR WORK.

THE EXEMPTIONS, I WON'T REPEAT WHAT I JUST SAID, BUT THAT'S A BIG PIECE.

AND YOU GUYS NOW ARE INVOLVED IN APPROVING OR RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF DRAFT EXEMPTIONS.

SO YOU'LL SEE THOSE, YOU'LL CONTINUE TO SEE THOSE.

AND THEN ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENTS.

SO THERE WILL BE MITIGATION MEASURES IN AN MND OR AN SEIR OR AN EIR.

AND ONE OF THE RESOURCE AREAS IS TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES.

SOMETIMES THOSE ARE ACTUALLY GROUPED UNDER CULTURAL RESOURCES STILL.

IT SOMETIMES CAN MOVE AROUND, BUT TRIBES ARE ALSO INTERESTED IN THINGS LIKE BIOLOGICAL IMPACTS OR, YOU KNOW, GEOLOGY SOMETIMES.

SO IT'S NOT JUST RESTRICTED TO THE TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE AREA.

AND THEN RESPONSES TO COMMENTS.

SO ANYTHING THAT WENT OUT FOR PUBLIC REVIEW, THEY MAY COMMENT ON, THEY MAY HAVE, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATIONS OF WHAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE OR NOT.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO CHANGE IT, BUT WE DO NEED TO RESPOND AND SUPPORT OUR RATIONALE.

SO I THINK I DISCUSSED A LOT OF THIS BEFORE, BUT AGAIN, THE PURPOSE OF THE EXEMPTION HERE IS EITHER THE PROJECT IS ASSUMED TO HAVE A LESS THAN SIGNIFICANT IMPACT IN THE CASE OF A STATUTORY OR CATEGORICAL EXEMPTION.

OR IT'S DEMONSTRATED THAT IT HAS A LESS THAN SIGNIFICANT IMPACT, AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THROUGH LIKE AN INITIAL STUDY WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE IN THE TECHNICAL STUDIES.

THE EXCEPTIONS TO STATED EXEMPTIONS MUST NOT APPLY.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE HIGHLIGHTING BEFORE, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW THAT YOU PLAY A ROLE IN APPROVING OR RECOMMENDING THE EXEMPTIONS.

AND THEN TO HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT MAY RESULT.

FROM THIS ANALYSIS, WHEN RESOURCES ARE FOUND, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE DIFFERENT MEASURES THAT CAN BE PUT TOGETHER TO BE AN APPROPRIATE TREATMENT OF THESE RESOURCES, EITHER FOR PROTECTION OR DOCUMENTATION? SO YOU SEE HERE THIS LIST, AND THIS COMES STRAIGHT OUT OF OUR EXISTING TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE GUIDELINES.

BUT THE NUMBER ONE THING IS JUST TO AVOID OR PRESERVE IT IN PLACE.

THEY'D RATHER JUST NOT DISTURB ANYTHING.

LET'S LEAVE THE ITEMS WHERE THEY ARE.

REPATRIATION, IF ANYTHING, IS EXCAVATED.

AS WE MENTIONED, TRIBAL MONITORING IS SOMETHING THAT IS A SUPPORTING TOOL TO IDENTIFY THE RESOURCES.

IT'S NOT A MITIGATION ITSELF, BUT IT IS ONE OF THESE OPTIONS THAT COME ALONG WITH TREATMENT.

CAPPING, SO JUST TO PRESERVE IT IN PLACE AGAIN.

DATA RECOVERY OR CURATION, PROVIDING EDUCATION INTERPRETATION.

AGAIN, THAT'S NOT A MITIGATION, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE ADDED ON TO.

REINFORCE THE VALUE OF THE RESOURCE AND EDUCATE THE COMMUNITY.

THERE CAN BE RESTRICTIONS AND EASEMENTS THAT ARE PUT ON PROPERTY.

THAT'S JUST PART OF THE PROTECTION.

IT ALSO CAN BE FOR ACCESS, AS THAT SECOND FROM THE TOP ON THE RIGHT SAYS.

AGAIN, THINKING OF WHAT ARE THOSE TRADITIONALLY SACRED SPACES OR WHAT ARE THE ACTIVITIES THAT THE TRIBE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE DOING OR RESTART IN CERTAIN AREAS.

AWARENESS TRAINING, THAT'S BOTH OF STAFF AND OF CONSTRUCTION CREWS.

JUST TO MAKE THEM AWARE OF WHAT THEY'RE OBLIGATED TO DO THROUGH MITIGATION MEASURES, BUT ALSO JUST WHAT ARE THE BEST PRACTICES WHEN CERTAIN SCENARIOS ARISE.

AND THEN CONTROLLED GRADING PROCEDURES AND THEN POST-REVIEW DISCOVERIES.

THEN YOU'LL ALSO SEE ANY NUMBER OF WHAT WE'VE JUST TALKED ABOUT IN CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL OR MITIGATION MEASURES.

THOSE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH TRIBAL CONSULTATION IF THAT OCCURRED.

AND THERE IS AN OFFICIAL END TO TRIBAL CONSULTATION.

YOU EITHER MUTUALLY AGREE TO IT OR YOU AGREE TO DISAGREE, BUT YOU MADE YOUR GOOD FAITH EFFORT,

[01:50:01]

AND THEN THE CITY IS ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD ONCE THAT'S BEEN CONCLUDED AND DOCUMENTED.

AND SO THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU WOULD SEE IN THOSE CONDITIONS OR IN THE MITIGATION MEASURES DOES GENERALLY FOLLOW THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN OUR GUIDELINES.

SO IF YOU EVER WONDER WHERE DID THOSE COME FROM, A LOT OF THAT WE DIRECT CONSULTANTS WHO ARE PREPARING THESE REPORTS TO FOLLOW OUR GUIDELINES.

SO THAT'S THE CONCLUSION OF THE IMPLEMENTATION SECTION, AND WE'RE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.

WHAT AN EDUCATION.

FANTASTIC.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONERS, CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.

COMMISSIONER BURROWS.

THAT WAS A GREAT PRESENTATION.

THANK YOU BOTH.

SO WHEN YOU DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT THE CONSULTATION PROCESS, AND YOU SAID THAT ONE OF THE OBJECTIVES WAS CONSIDERING CAREFULLY THE VIEWS OF OTHERS, IF, LET'S SAY...

ONE OF THE TRIBES OF THE CONSULTATION PROCESS IS ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO A PROJECT OR TO THE DEVELOPMENT, DO THEY HAVE VETO POWER OVER THE PROJECT? I MEAN, THEY CAN RECOMMEND OR VOICE THAT DISAPPROVAL, AND THAT'S THE END OF THE CONSULTING? SO WE TRY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION THROUGHOUT THE LIFE OF THE PROJECT.

AS WE TALKED ABOUT, WE HAVE STATUTORY.

RESTRICTIONS OF WHEN WE HAVE TO NOTIFY THEM AND OFFER TO START CONSULTATION WITH THEM.

AND THAT'S VERY EARLY IN THE PROCESS.

AND SO THE POINT IS TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS EARLY SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THE DISCUSSION AND SEE IF THE APPLICANT, WHETHER IT'S THE CITY OR WHETHER IT'S A PRIVATE DEVELOPER, ARE ABLE TO MAKE CHANGES OR ADJUST DESIGN OR COME TO SOME AGREEMENT EARLY IN THE PROCESS SO THEN IT'S NOT AS BIG OF AN IMPACT LATER.

I'LL ALSO SAY EVEN BEFORE.

REALLY, APPLICATION COMPLETENESS, A LOT OF TIMES APPLICANTS HAVE DONE THEIR CULTURAL RESOURCE ASSESSMENT AT THE VERY BEGINNING, AND THAT EVEN INCLUDES A REACH OUT TO THE TRIBES JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'VE DONE THEIR DUE DILIGENCE ON HAVE ANY RESOURCES BEEN FOUND AROUND HERE, WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD OF ANY RESOURCE.

AND SO THERE'S MULTIPLE TOUCH POINTS EARLY, AND THEN WE WALK ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

WE TRY TO FIND AGREEMENT WHERE WE CAN.

SO HOPEFULLY PROJECT DESIGN CAN BE ADJUSTED IN SUCH A WAY.

IF NOT, THEN IT CONTINUES, AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MAY NOT BE AN AGREEMENT ON THAT PARTICULAR PIECE.

AND THEN IF THERE'S AN ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENT, THEN WE ACTUALLY GO OVER THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE OF WHAT WILL BE THE MITIGATIONS MOVING FORWARD, THOSE THAT WE CAN AGREE TO, AND WE JUST, AGAIN, DOCUMENT WHAT WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ON, BUT THAT'S OKAY.

AND THEN WE GO AS FAR AS WE CAN.

THE IDEAL IS TO GET AN AGREEMENT ON EVERYTHING.

BUT.

IF WE REACH THE END OF THAT AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ESTABLISH AN AGREEMENT, THEN WE AGREE TO DISAGREE AND WE CONCLUDE CONSULTATION.

AND THAT IS THE CITY'S RIGHT.

THEY DO NOT HAVE A VETO POWER.

THEY CAN'T STOP US FROM CONCLUDING.

BUT IT IS A GRAY AREA OF WHAT IS A GOOD FAITH EFFORT.

HOW LONG DO WE ENGAGE WITH THEM? HOW CREATIVE DO WE TRY TO GET WITH WHAT THOSE SOLUTIONS MAY BE? MR. LARDY? YEAH, I WAS JUST GOING TO ADD THAT IT AGREE.

WHILE THERE IS NO VETO POWER, IT COULD POTENTIALLY CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENTAL DOCUMENT.

SO IF THERE IS A POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT AND THERE'S NO AGREEMENT THAT MITIGATION COULD LESSEN THAT, IT COULD POTENTIALLY CHANGE A DOCUMENT FROM, FOR EXAMPLE, A MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION TO AN EIR AND CHANGE THE FINDINGS THE LEAD AGENCY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO MAKE IN ORDER TO APPROVE THAT PROJECT, WHATEVER IT MAY BE.

THANK YOU.

FURTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER FITZGERALD.

NO QUESTIONS.

JUST WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THAT PRESENTATION.

I'M REALLY PROUD THAT CARLSBAD EMBRACES AND HAS CREATED THEIR OWN GUIDELINES.

I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT WE INCORPORATE IT AND NOW THAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE IT ON AN EVEN MORE KIND OF SALIENT LEVEL HERE AT THE COMMISSION.

I ACTUALLY DO HAVE A QUESTION NOW I THINK ABOUT IT.

SHOULD THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT START TO REMOVE SOME OF THESE PROTECTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE REALLY HELPFUL TO ENSHRINE AGAIN THAT GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP.

IS CARL'S BAD? GUIDELINES AND ARE THE STATE CODES KIND OF GOING TO STAND IN THAT PLACE? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SPEAK ON THE LEGALITY OF WHETHER, AGAIN, THOSE FEDERAL REGULATIONS COULD BE STRICT, BUT WE JUST HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD BE, THEY COULD STAY IN PLACE, THE STATE AND LOCAL ONES.

BUT YEAH, CURIOUS TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS.

YEAH, I MEAN, I'LL LOOK FOR ANY ASSISTANCE FROM EITHER DALTON OR NIKKI.

MR. LARDY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO? YEAH, SO THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR PROJECTS ARE LOCAL PROJECTS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT OR THAT SB 18.

CONSULTATION AS REQUIRED UNDER STATE LAW FOR GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENTS.

SO I THINK FROM A DAY TO DAY, MOST OF WHAT WE SEE ARE STATE REQUIREMENTS.

IF WE WERE TO HAVE A FEDERAL PROJECT PROPOSED, AN ENERGY PROJECT OR SOMETHING ON FEDERAL OR STATE LANDS, THAT'S REALLY WHEN NEPA AND THOSE OTHER REGULATIONS WOULD PLAY MORE.

BUT IT'S NOT THE PRIMARY ITEM THAT WE HAVE ON DAY TO DAY.

YEAH.

THANK YOU.

[01:55:01]

SO AGAIN, GREAT PRESENTATION.

I THINK IT'S GOOD FOR THE PUBLIC TO...

HEAR HOW NOW WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, BE DETERMINING THESE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSIDERATIONS AND CEQA EXEMPTIONS.

SO NOW IT'S IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S SEAT, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN CONTINUE TO, YOU KNOW, RAISE CONCERNS AND INCORPORATE THESE INTO OUR DECISIONS.

SO, THANKS.

COMMISSIONER MERZ? OH, COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

I'LL GO BACK TO IT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I REMEMBER FROM A PREVIOUS PROJECT THAT WE HAD.

AND I COME FROM, ACTUALLY, I COME FROM, I WORKED FOR A GEOTECHNICAL FIRM YEARS AGO WHERE WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, STUDY GEOLOGY AND WORK FOR A GEOTECHNICAL FIRM WHERE THEY WOULD DO GRADING ON SITES AND DO THE SOILS TESTING, THAT THING.

AND SO WE HAD A PROJECT COME BEFORE US A WHILE BACK.

IT WAS OVERLOOKING THE BUENA VISTA LAGOON.

IT WAS A HOUSE.

AND PART OF THE REQUIREMENT WAS TO HAVE TRIBAL MONITORING.

FOR BUILDING.

HOWEVER, THIS IS A PREVIOUSLY GRADED SITE, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY FEET OF FILL IT WAS SITTING ON, BUT IT JUST IS SOMETHING I DIDN'T, IT KIND OF, I KIND OF REGRET NOT MAKING A FINDING AND PUSHING AGAINST THAT.

IT JUST SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS A LAYER OF COST ADDED TO THIS PROJECT BECAUSE YOU NEED A TRIBAL MONITOR, BUT THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, A PROJECT.

SO IF YOU'RE, SAY YOU HAVE LIKE FIVE FEET OF FILL DIRT THAT'S BEEN TURNED OVER BY THE EARTH MOVERS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, JUST BASICALLY BARELY TOUCH THAT.

WHY DO YOU NEED A TRIBAL MONITORING SITUATION FOR THAT? AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT BOTHERED ME.

AND I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT NATIVE GROUND, BUT WHEN A TRACTOR GOES, GENERALLY THE WAY EARTH MOVING WORKS IS THAT THEY HAVE TO SCRAPE EVERYTHING OFF THE SURFACE DOWN TO NATURAL BEDROCK, SCARIFY, AND BOOT IT.

SO IF YOU'RE SITTING ON FIVE FEET OF GROUND THAT WAS ROUGH GRADED, SAY, TEN YEARS AGO, WHY WOULD YOU NEED THAT? AND THEN AS PLANNING COMMISSION, CAN WE MAKE A FINDING THAT SAYS, HEY, BASED ON WHAT WE SEE FROM THE GRADING REPORT AND THE WAY THIS IS BEING BUILT, WE DON'T NEED TRIBAL MONITORING FOR THAT.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MR. LARDY? SO NOT REMEMBERING THE EXACT EXAMPLE THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR, SPEAKING IN GENERALITIES, AS THE CITY HAS DEVELOPED OVER TIME, THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS PHASES OF DEVELOPMENT.

I MEAN, WE HAD GUIDELINES IN THE 90S.

WE UPDATED THEM IN 2017.

SO JUST BECAUSE THERE IS FILTH THERE DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY SOME LEVEL OF ARTIFACTS OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE THERE.

WE DO HAVE SORT OF OUR STANDARD MONITORING PROTOCOLS THAT ARE IN PLACE AND THEY'RE ADOPTED IN THE GUIDELINES AS RECOMMENDED MITIGATION MEASURES.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DISCUSS WITH HELIX AND THE APPLICANT TEAM, AND I'D ASK IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT THEY WANTED TO ADD ON THAT AS WE DEVELOP OUR GUIDELINES.

IS THERE SOME SORT OF THRESHOLD OF SMALL AMOUNT OF DIRT MOVEMENT THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE? BUT WE HAVE TO BALANCE THAT WITH WE ARE PROCESSING.

YOU'RE GETTING IT IT'S A DISCRETIONARY ACTION WHERE WE NEED TO SHOW COMPLIANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES AND SHOW THAT WE'RE NOT HAVING AN IMPACT TO THE TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES.

WITH THAT, I'D ASK IF THE CITY ATTORNEY OR NIKKI HAS ANYTHING TO ADD.

YES, I CAN ADD TO THAT.

I'VE BEEN IN THAT EXACT SCENARIO.

YEAH.

AND KIND OF LIKE MR. LARDY WAS SAYING, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT FILL WAS PLACED AND YOU DON'T KNOW...

WHERE IT CAME FROM.

I MEAN, IT COULD HAVE COME FROM SOMEPLACE THAT WAS AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITE BEFORE AND YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IT.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN LAID DOWN AND MOVED AROUND, EVEN IF IT WAS FROM THE SAME SITE AT A TIME WHEN MONITORING WAS NOT REQUIRED.

SO IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE INTACT RESOURCES WITHIN THAT FILTER.

AND THEN THE THING WITH MONITORING, TOO, IS WE'RE NOT THERE TO MILK IT.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE THERE FOR THE RESOURCES AND TO KEEP PROJECTS IN COMPLIANCE.

SO WE DO HAVE THE DISCRETION ONCE WE GET ON SITE.

IF WE WATCH SOMETHING AND WE SEE ALL THIS IS FILTERED, IT'S CLEAN, IT OBVIOUSLY CAME FROM A SOURCE, IT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, GROUND UP BEDROCK, IT'S CG, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WE CAN DETERMINE THAT THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE CULTURAL MATERIAL IN THAT.

OR IF WE'RE WATCHING AND WE SEE THAT WE DO GET DOWN INTO BEDROCK.

OR PALEO FORMATION, NATIVE AMERICAN AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL MONITORS HAVE THE DISCRETION TO SAY THERE'S NO LONGER A POSSIBILITY FOR CULTURAL RESOURCES TO BE PRESENT, AND MONITORING CAN CEASE AT THAT TIME.

I GUESS TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, I GUESS IF YOU'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE LIKE A, BASICALLY WHEN YOU GRADE, RIGHT, YOU HAVE A FILL REPORT, RIGHT, THAT SHOWS THE DEPTHS OF FILL.

SO IF LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE 10 YEARS AGO, YOU'RE ON A SITE THAT'S SITTING ON 10 FEET OF FILL, IT WAS PUSHED OVER AND LAYERED, YOU KNOW, GROUND UP AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT.

I MEAN YOU SO I GUESS IT'S JUST YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY TAKE AWAY THE REQUIREMENT FOR TRIBAL MONITORING, BUT YOU COULD MAKE A DECISION PRETTY QUICKLY THAT THERE'S PROBABLY NOTHING THERE, RIGHT? IT COULD BE MADE QUICKLY IF THE FILL WAS DETERMINED TO BE CLEAN, AS I SAID.

[02:00:02]

BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A MONITOR ON SITE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.

OKAY.

I DID ACTUALLY HAVE A PROJECT RECENTLY ALONG THE LAGOON THAT WE WE'RE IN FILDERT, BUT WE DID IDENTIFY A BUNCH OF SHELL, AND WE, FROM OUR CEQA DOCUMENTATION, WERE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT IT WAS ADJACENT TO A KNOWN RECORDED CULTURAL RESOURCE.

AND SO WE ACTUALLY DIDN'T KNOW WE WOULD ENCOUNTER THAT, BUT BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN SPREAD OVER, THERE WAS HOUSING AROUND THE LAGOON, WE DID FIND IT ON SITE.

SO OUT OF ITS CONTEXT, BUT CLOSE ENOUGH TO OTHER ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITES THAT WE WERE ABLE TO STILL GIVE IT ITS PROPER CONTEXT AND MANAGE THE RESOURCES APPROPRIATELY.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY.

THANKS.

SO LAST WEEK WE WENT.

AND TO THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER ACADEMY, AND WE LEARNED A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT CEQA.

AND THE ASSUMPTIONS ARE BASED ON A CLEAR BASELINE.

SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT'S HOW THEY BENCHMARK TO DETERMINE IMPACTS.

SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE CLEAR BASELINE IS FOR WHAT OUR CITY IS LOOKING FOR, AND IS IT REALLY THIS SORT OF.

PAGE 26 IN YOUR POWERPOINT THAT ARE THE AREAS OF MOST CONCERN.

IS THAT WHERE THE BASELINE HAPPENS? OR ARE THERE OTHER, IS IT SORT OF OPEN-ENDED? I GUESS THAT'S MY QUESTION.

I GUESS I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY BASELINE.

IT'S HOW THEY'RE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE WAS A SERIES OF ASSUMPTIONS THAT GET MADE.

BUT BASED ON PREVIOUS ENVIRONMENTAL REPORTS, THAT BECOMES THE BASELINE.

IS THAT WHAT THAT IS? SO IF THERE'S ALREADY AN ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT ON A PARTICULAR AREA, IS THAT ALSO HOW CULTURAL RESOURCES ARE DETERMINED? RIGHT.

SO FOR CULTURAL RESOURCES, WE DO HAVE A PHASED APPROACH.

SO SAY YOU WANT TO DEVELOP.

A LOCATION FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.

THE FIRST STEP THAT WE WOULD TAKE AS ARCHAEOLOGISTS WOULD BE TO GO TO THE CALIFORNIA HISTORICAL RESOURCE INFORMATION DATABASE, WHICH IS RUN BY THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER.

AND SO THAT IS A DATA WAREHOUSE THROUGHOUT CALIFORNIA THAT HOUSES ALL OF THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL STUDIES AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL RECORDS WITHIN THE ENTIRE STATE.

SO THE FIRST STEP IN OUR PROCESS IS TO GO THERE, WE IDENTIFY THE LOCATION OF THE PROJECT, AND USUALLY A ONE-MILE RADIUS AROUND THAT, TO GET AN IDEA OF THE CONTEXT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

SO EVEN IF THERE HASN'T BEEN SOMETHING IDENTIFIED ON THAT EXACT PROPERTY, WE CAN SEE ADJACENT PROPERTIES, WE CAN KIND OF GET A FEEL FOR THE PATTERN OF, ARE THERE A LOT OF PRE-CONTACT SITES HERE? IS IT HEAVILY HISTORIC WITH SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCES? JUST WHAT THE STORY OF THE AREA IS.

AFTER THAT, WE...

WE'LL REACH OUT TO THE NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE COMMISSION.

THEY DO KEEP A SACRED LANDS FILE DATABASE, AND SO WE REACH OUT TO THEM AND REQUEST KNOWLEDGE ON IF THERE ARE SACRED LANDS WITHIN THE VICINITY OF A PROJECT SITE, AND THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION, SO THEY DON'T TELL US EXACTLY, YES, ON THAT SITE OR, YES, NEARBY, BUT THEY WILL GIVE US A GENERAL VICINITY IDEA OF, YES, THIS IS SENSITIVE.

WE DO HAVE SACRED LANDS.

TRIBALLY SACRED LANDS IN THE VICINITY OR NOT.

AND THEN THEY ALSO PROVIDE US WITH A LIST OF TRIBAL CONTACTS.

SO THAT WOULD BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE AB 52 LIST THE CITY RECEIVES.

AS A CONSULTANT, WE DO INITIAL OUTREACH EVEN BEFORE AB 52, LIKE ROB MENTIONED EARLIER, JUST TO GIVE THE TRIBES A HEADS UP ABOUT THE PROJECT, TO REQUEST IF THEY HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF RESOURCES WITHIN THE AREA.

AND WE HAVE REALLY GOOD RELATIONSHIPS WITH A LOT OF THE TRIBES THAT CLAIM CARLSBAD AS THEIR TRADITIONAL USE TERRITORY.

AND SO WE DO OFTEN GET A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION FROM THEM, AND RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING WE'RE ABLE TO ESTABLISH THAT RELATIONSHIP AND WORK WITH THEM TO MAKE THE PROJECT HAPPEN FOR THE DEVELOPER AND ALSO TO MAKE IT FEASIBLE AND RESPECTFUL FOR THE TRIBES.

THE NEXT STEP IN THAT PHASE WOULD BE TO DO AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY.

WHICH IS A PEDESTRIAN FIELD SURVEY WHERE YOU ACTUALLY WALK IN PARALLEL TRANSECTS OVER A PROJECT DEVELOPMENT AND SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ON THE GROUND SURFACE.

AND THEN IF THERE IS, I'M SO SORRY, THIS IS LONG-WINDED.

IF THERE IS ANYTHING ON THE GROUND SURFACE AND WE ARE UNABLE TO DETERMINE IF IT'S

[02:05:01]

SIGNIFICANT, SO IF WE FIND SOMETHING LIKE A SINGLE MONO, A GRINDING STONE, ALL BY ITSELF, WE SAY, WELL, THIS IS WHAT WE CALL AN ISOLATE.

IT DOESN'T HAVE A LARGER CONTEXT HERE.

THEREFORE, IT'S NOT SIGNIFICANT.

BUT IF THERE'S POTENTIAL THAT IT COULD MEET ANY OF THOSE FOUR CRITERIA THAT WERE LISTED EARLIER, BUT WE JUST CAN'T MAKE THAT DETERMINATION FROM LOOKING AT THE GROUND SURFACE, THEN WE COULD DO A TESTING PROGRAM.

WHICH WOULD INVOLVE EXCAVATION AND A LOT OF TRIBAL COORDINATION.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE TRIBAL MONITORS COME AND WATCH US AS ARCHAEOLOGISTS ANY TIME THAT WE ARE DIGGING.

SO WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE TO PROTECT RESOURCES.

AND, YEAH, WE'RE GETTING THERE.

MR. LARDY, DID YOU WANT TO ADD SOMETHING? WELL, WHEN YOU'RE CONCLUDED, I CAN MAYBE SPEAK IN GENERALITIES ON KIND OF HOW WE APPLY BASELINE FOR OTHER DISCRETIONARY ACTIONS.

OKAY.

I'LL WRAP IT UP.

THAT WILL BE YOUR QUESTION, YOUR ANSWER THEN.

OKAY.

SO AFTER THE TESTING PROGRAM, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? AFTER A TESTING PROGRAM? WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE SIGNIFICANCE OF A RESOURCE, AND IT'S AT THAT POINT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO SAY WHAT SORT OF IMPACTS A PROJECT MIGHT HAVE TO A PARTICULAR LOCATION, AND THAT'S WHEN IT WOULD MOVE INTO THE AGENCY'S HANDS TO WORK WITH THE TRIBES TO DETERMINE A LEVEL OF MITIGATION OR AVOIDANCE.

SO I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT SEGUE INTO SORT OF WHAT HAPPENS TO SORT OF ALL THE TOPIC AREAS UNDER CEQA.

WHEN YOU'RE PREPARING A CEQA DOCUMENT, EITHER AN EXEMPTION OR AN M&D, THE BASELINE IS SORT OF WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON, WHAT'S EXISTING THERE.

AND SO OUR BASELINE FOR THE MOST CASES WERE DEVELOPED CITIES.

SO WHAT OUR ASSUMPTIONS WOULD BE FOR ALL OF OUR SUBTOPIC AREAS, AIR QUALITY, TRAFFIC, VEHICLE MILES TRAVELED, IS SORT OF WHAT ASSUMPTIONS DO WE PLUG INTO THE VARIOUS STUDIES.

AND THEN WE FIRST LOOK AT WHAT STUDIES ARE NEEDED, WHAT ASSUMPTIONS NEED TO GO INTO IT.

PULL ALL THOSE TOGETHER AND MAKE A PRELIMINARY RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT THAT CEQA IS.

IF IT'S ONE OF THOSE LESSER DOCUMENTS, IT'S NOT A STATIC POINT IN TIME.

IF WE'RE DOING AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT OR SUBSEQUENT DOCUMENT, IT'S USUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH WHEN THE NOTICE OF PREPARATION IS DEVELOPED.

AND SO WE ISSUE A NOTICE OF PREPARATION, ASK PEOPLE FOR COMMENTS, AND THEN ANY REASONABLY FORESEEABLE PROJECT IN THAT AREA.

IS SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT.

AND WE LOOK AT, DEPENDING ON WHAT'S THERE, WHAT'S THE SORT OF THE NO-PROJECT ALTERNATIVE, WHICH COULD BE PHYSICALLY NO-PROJECT.

IN SOME CASES, IT COULD BE IF THERE'S A MALL THERE TODAY AND IT'S PROPOSED FOR HOUSING, THE NO-PROJECT ALTERNATIVE COULD BE A MALL THERE INSTEAD OF VACANT LAND.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING IN THE SLIDE WE HAD UP WAS THE TYPES OF THINGS WE SEE AT THIS STAGE.

I THINK IT'S SLIDE 27, ROB.

YES.

THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE START TO SEE IN A CITY AT THIS PHASE OF DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS PRIMARILY INFILL DEVELOPMENT.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS WE HAVE A LOT OF DEDICATED OPEN SPACE THAT WE'RE NOT TOUCHING, AND THEN WE HAVE A LOT OF SORT OF INFILL THINGS THAT WE'RE BALANCING, HOUSING LAWS AND OTHER THINGS.

IF CARLSBAD WAS TO BE PUT IN, IF IT WAS NOT IN PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OR PARCELIZED RIGHT NOW, IT COULD BE VERY DIFFERENT WITH TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCES.

AND PROBABLY MUCH MORE AVOIDANCE BE GIVEN WHAT HAS OCCURRED HISTORICALLY IN CARLSBAD IN THE PAST.

SO I THINK THAT GOES INTO A LITTLE BIT OF BASELINE IS WHAT IS OUR BASELINE IS WE'RE A CITY OF 117,000 PEOPLE THAT'S SEEING A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS PROPOSED IN VARIOUS SITUATIONS, AND WE HAVE TO BALANCE DIFFERENT CEQA GOALS AS WE EVALUATE PROJECTS.

THANK YOU, MR. LARDY.

FURTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS MOMENT? YEAH, I GOT A FEW QUESTIONS.

OKAY.

MR. FOSTER, COMMISSIONER FOSTER.

YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT MR. LARDY JUST SAID WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO KIND OF LEAD TO WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY.

SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF PROJECTS IN THIS CITY AND ACROSS STATE.

THERE'S TENS OF THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PROJECTS.

I DID A LITTLE DIVE INTO AB 52, AND IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL LEGISLATION PASSED, SOME OF THE MOST POWERFUL LEGISLATION PASSED IN THE LAST TEN YEARS THAT I'VE EVER HEARD ABOUT IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, WHERE ESSENTIALLY, THE TRIBES CAN THEY DO NOT, AS COMMISSIONER BURROWS ASKED, THEY DON'T HAVE VETO POWER.

BUT THEY DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SOMETHING FOR A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, FOR EVERY PROJECT IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

IS THAT CORRECT?

[02:10:01]

JUST FOR QUALIFYING PROJECTS, SO FOR I CAN GO BACK TO THIS SLIDE.

SO FOR AB52 SPECIFICALLY, IT'S A CEQA DOCUMENT THAT'S A NEGATIVE DOCUMENT, A GATED NEGATIVE DOCUMENT, OR AN EIR OR SEIR.

IF IT'S AN EXEMPTION PROJECT, THEN IT WOULD NOT BE CONSULTED.

OKAY, SO FOR THOSE PROJECTS, THEY HAVE A SAY, AND THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

I MEAN, I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

I'M NOT ASKING THE QUESTION.

I'M JUST KIND OF SPEAKING OUT LOUD HERE.

BUT ANYWAY, I JUST THOUGHT THAT AB 52 IS JUST IT'S REALLY POWERFUL.

THE MORE I WAS READING ABOUT IT, AND I THINK YOU MENTIONED, LIKE, THERE'S THIS EXCHANGE, AND CAN WE COME TO A HAPPY MEDIUM? IF WE CAN'T, WE COME TO AN IMPASSE.

I GUESS KIND OF MY BUSINESS KIND OF LEGAL MIND GOES TO YOU'RE REALLY JUST KIND OF GET TO LITIGATION MITIGATION.

LIKE, YOU'RE REALLY JUST TRYING TO SAY WE MADE BEST EFFORTS.

YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN'T COME TO TERMS, WE CAN'T COME TO TERMS. NOW IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS IF YOU WANT TO PURSUE LEGAL ACTION OR NOT.

AND THEN AS I KIND OF PURSUE THIS FURTHER AND READING ABOUT IT, REALLY KIND OF THE BUSINESS SETTLEMENT, IF YOU WILL, IS THE TRIBAL MONITORING.

YOU KNOW, GETTING, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, HEY, HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE A MONITOR OUT AT THE SITE AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT THINGS, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANY RESOURCES THAT ARE FOUND OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, I WAS READING ABOUT IT, AND I'M LIKE, WELL, HOW MUCH DO THESE TRIBAL MONITORS GET PAID, RIGHT? AND FOR A LARGE SUBDIVISION PROJECT, THEY CAN MAKE ANYWHERE FROM $100,000 TO $300,000.

FOR A MEDIUM SITE, $20,000 TO $80,000.

FOR A SMALL GREEN JOB, $5,000 TO $20,000.

AND I WAS JUST LIKE, WOW, THAT'S JUST A LOT OF MONEY.

SO MY QUESTION IS, SO WHO'S PAYING FOR THE TRIBAL MONITORING, THE APPLICANT EVERY TIME, RIGHT? RIGHT.

SO AND THEN AND THEN THEY DON'T PROVIDE THAT THE TRIBES DON'T PROVIDE A LIST TO THE CITY OF CARLSBAD OF, HEY, LIKE LIKE RINCON, BY EXAMPLE, RINCON DOESN'T SAY, HEY, LOOK, HERE'S A LIST OF, YOU KNOW, 100.

LIKE, OK, WE UNDERSTAND AROUND THE SHORE OF AGUILERA LAGOON LIKE THAT'S GOING TO BE SENSITIVE.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S WATER SOURCE, BUT THEY DON'T PROVIDE A LIST OF THE CITY OF CARLSBAD AND SAY, HEY, HERE'S 100 LIKELY SITES THAT ARE GOING TO BE SENSITIVE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO ALL CONFIDENTIAL.

IT'S NOT ALL CONFIDENTIAL.

THERE IS SOME INFORMATION.

THE CITY OBVIOUSLY RETAINS RECORDS THAT WE HAVE AND WE'RE ABLE TO SHARE INFORMATION WITH THEM CONFIDENTIALLY THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC, BUT THAT IS AVAILABLE.

BUT THERE'S STILL MORE INFORMATION THAT THEY RETAIN, WHICH IS THEIR RIGHT TO EITHER DISCLOSE OR NOT TO DISCLOSE.

AND SO WE HAVE I MEAN, EVEN THE LIST THAT I HAD ON PAGE 26 IS SORT OF OUR SHORTHAND OF THE SHARED KNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE AND THE TYPES OF.

CONVERSATIONS WE'VE HAD WITH THEM IN THE PAST TENDS TO FIT THIS.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT COMPLETELY INCLUSIVE, AND THEY DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRING THEIR TRIBAL KNOWLEDGE, WHETHER IT'S AT THE EARLY STAGE, LIKE NIKKI'S SAYING, TO MAYBE CLEAR A SITE OR TO SAY THERE MAY BE RESOURCES THERE.

THAT'S SORT OF THE FIRST STEP.

BUT THEN ALSO, AS WE GO THROUGH THE CONSULTATION PROCESS, THEY CAN BRING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THERE AS WELL.

SO YOU'RE CORRECT.

THERE'S SOME INFORMATION WE DON'T KNOW.

THEY WOULD NOT CHOOSE.

TO DISCLOSE 100% OF WHERE ALL OF THEIR RESOURCES ARE FOR SENSITIVITY REASONS.

YEAH, I UNDERSTAND.

THEY'RE IN A REALLY GREAT POSITION WHEN IT COMES TO THIS DEVELOPMENT AND THEIR POSITION OF HAVING AN IMPACT OR SAY OR INFLUENCE INTO THE DEVELOPMENT.

YEAH, I DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS.

I THINK YOU ANSWERED IT.

APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU.

I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP.

PUBLIC TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME.

MINUTES CLERK? NO, CHAIR, THERE'S NONE.

I WILL NOW CLOSE PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, FURTHER QUESTIONS.

I KNOW ONE QUESTION THAT I DO HAVE.

YOU'RE, IT INDICATES IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT YOU WILL BE COMING BACK LATER IN THE YEAR.

WE'RE GETTING SOME UPDATES.

COULD YOU CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT AS TO WHAT WE CAN ANTICIPATE? SURE.

SO WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF UPDATING THE GUIDELINES AGAIN.

SO THEY'RE GETTING CLOSE TO 10 YEARS OLD.

SO JUST FOR SOME OF THE SAME REASONS THAT THE 2016 ONES WERE UPDATED, THERE'S BEEN REGULATORY CHANGES, STATE LAWS, ET CETERA, JUST IMPROVEMENTS IN BEST PRACTICES THAT WE WANT TO HAVE REFLECTED IN THE GUIDELINES.

ALSO, AS PART OF OUR ONGOING RELATIONSHIP BUILDING WITH THE TRIBES, THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THINGS THAT THEY THINK WE CAN DO BETTER, AND THERE'S CERTAIN PASSAGES OF LANGUAGE OR WHATEVER THAT HAVE BECOME PROBLEMATIC OR ARE NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, AND SO WE'RE LOOKING TO CLEAR THAT UP AND REALLY TO IMPROVE THE GUIDELINES.

AND SO.

WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT.

WE'RE IN THE EARLY STAGES, SO WE DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC DATE THAT WE COULD TELL YOU THAT WE'LL BE BACK OTHER THAN LATER THIS YEAR IS OUR EXISTING SCHEDULE.

AND SO WE JUST WANTED TO HAVE AN EARLY PRESENTATION WITH YOU ALL.

WE THINK THIS BENEFITS EVEN PROJECTS YOU'LL HEAR BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.

BUT THEN, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, AS WE TEE UP TO THAT,

[02:15:01]

WE'RE EXPECTING TO HAVE A PUBLIC REVIEW PERIOD OF THOSE DRAFT GUIDELINES AS WELL THAT WILL HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN WE WOULD COME BACK TO YOU, SO THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO REVIEW AND CONSIDER.

THE CHANGES AS WELL.

SO AS A PART OF THAT, THAT WILL BE RECONNECTING WITH THE TRIBES AND GATHERING ANY INPUT THAT THEY HAVE AS WELL.

WELL, CORRECT.

SO REGULATIONS.

YES.

SO WE HAVE MONTHLY MEETINGS WITH RINCON AND SAN LUIS REY.

IT'S NOT REQUIRED, BUT WE'VE FOUND THAT IT'S BEST TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS EARLY SO THAT IT'S NOT A SURPRISE.

AGAIN, IT.

A LOT OF CONSULTATION IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIP BUILDING.

WE WANT TO KNOW WHO ARE THE TRIBAL CULTURAL RESOURCE REPRESENTATIVES, AND WE WANT THEM TO KNOW US AND UNDERSTAND OUR PROCESS AND WHERE WE'RE COMING FROM.

SO WE ACTUALLY CHOOSE TO DO THAT, AND THAT WOULD BE OPEN TO ANY TRIBE.

IT'S JUST THOSE ARE THE TWO THAT HAVE REACHED OUT AND AGREED TO MEET WITH US REGULARLY.

SO WE'VE RECEIVED ANY NUMBER OF COMMENTS JUST THROUGH THE YEARS, THROUGH THOSE MEETINGS, AS WELL AS SOME MORE POINTED REVIEWS THAT THEY'VE DONE AND ACTUALLY GIVEN US.

SPECIFIC COMMENTS AND RED LINES.

SO WE HAVE INITIATED THAT PROCESS WITH THEM IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR ONGOING MEETINGS AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE MOVING THROUGH A REGULAR PUBLIC OUTREACH PROCESS TO GET INPUT FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, FROM RESIDENTS, FROM ANY OTHER STAKEHOLDERS THAT WOULD WANT TO PROVIDE INPUT AS WELL.

BUT OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SPECIFICALLY IN THE TRIBAL CULTURAL PORTION.

OF THAT DOCUMENT.

SO WITH YOU MEETING WITH THOSE TRIBES, YOU'RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT THE FOUR TRIBES? WELL, NO, SO WE DID THE SAME THAT WE DO WHEN WE NEED TO NOTIFY THE 21 TRIBES OF PROJECTS THAT COME THROUGH.

WE LET THEM KNOW THAT WE ARE EMBARKING ON THIS PROCESS, AND IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE INVOLVED, WE WOULD LIKE THEM TO BE INVOLVED AS WELL.

SO NO, THE FOUR IS SPECIFIC TO AB 52 AND THAT'S AN OFFICIAL OPT-IN LIST.

BUT WE ARE...

BEING AS INCLUSIVE AS POSSIBLE WITH THIS EFFORT.

GOOD CLARIFICATION.

THANK YOU.

FURTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER FOSTER.

THERE'S ENOUGH TO TALK ABOUT TO MEET MONTHLY.

THERE IS.

REALLY? I MEAN, SOMETIMES WE CANCEL OR RESCHEDULE, BUT YEAH.

NO, I THINK IT'S GREAT YOU GUYS MEET AND HAVE AN OPEN DIALOGUE.

DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE? HAVE THEY EVER SUED THE CITY OF CARLSBAD? I'M LIKE, BASICALLY, THERE'S A PROJECT, THERE'S AN IMPASSE.

AND THEY SAY THAT'S IT, WE'RE SUING, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.

WE HAVE NOT.

I'LL JUST COMMENT THAT IN OUR CASE LAW PRESENTATION THIS YEAR, THERE WAS A CASE IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA WHERE THERE WAS A TRIBE THAT SUED, AND IT ACTUALLY, THE CITY ENDED UP LOSING ON SORT OF PROCEDURAL GROUNDS.

SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE DIALOGUE AND MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS TO HELP PROTECT THE CITY.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT'S WHY I WAS CIRCLING BACK TO MY BEGINNING OPENING STATEMENT, WHICH IS THE AB52 IS JUST SO POWERFUL.

IF YOU GUYS DON'T MEET, THEY CAN JUST SUE.

AND THEY CAN LOSE IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA.

SO, BUT, NO, THAT'S GREAT YOU GUYS ARE MEETING.

YEAH.

THANKS.

COMMISSIONER FITZGERALD.

I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF.

YEAH, I THINK AB 52 I WOULDN'T CONSIDER POWERFUL, RIGHT? THIS IS TRIBAL LAND.

WE TOOK THAT AWAY FROM THEM, AND WE ARE DOING THE LEAST WE CAN DO BY ALLOWING THEM TO BE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS.

SO, HONESTLY, IT'S THE BARE MINIMUM.

THERE PROBABLY SHOULD BE MORE EFFORTS THAT WE CAN DO.

AGAIN.

TAKING LAND FROM PEOPLE AND ALLOWING THEM A SIMPLE CONSULTATION IS BARE MINIMUM.

SO I UNDERSTAND FOLKS MIGHT THINK IT'S POWERFUL, BUT HISTORY, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE A HISTORY LESSON WOVEN INTO THIS WOULD BE HELPFUL AS WELL.

GOOD COMMENTS.

ANYTHING FURTHER? ANY OTHER FURTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.

THANK YOU FOR COMING AND VISITING WITH US THIS EVENING AND GATHERED, PROVIDED US AMAZING.

INFORMATION.

THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.

[COMMISSION MEMBER COMMENTARY AND REQUESTS FOR CONSIDERATION OF MATTERS]

LOOK FORWARD TO THE UPDATE LATER ON THIS YEAR.

APPRECIATE IT.

SO IT'S NOW COMMISSIONERS MAKING REPORTS.

COMMISSIONER LAFFERTY, COULD I HAVE YOU GIVE JUST A BRIEF AS TO THE CALIFORNIA CITY'S PLANNING CONFERENCE THAT BOTH YOU, COMMISSIONER BURROWS, AND MYSELF, ALONG WITH MR. LARDY.

AND OUR CITY ATTORNEY WENT TO.

COULD YOU GIVE US A BRIEF UPDATE AS TO WHAT WE EXPERIENCED? I'LL GIVE YOU A BRIEF UPDATE.

HOW'S THAT? ACTUALLY, THE OPENING GENERAL SESSION WAS THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER WAS WILLIAM FULTON, WHO'S RIGHT HERE AT UC SAN DIEGO.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE PLANNERS PROBABLY KNOW HIM MUCH MORE THAN I DO.

THAT MANY PEOPLE CAME TO THANK HIM FOR HIS TEXTBOOK THAT HE WROTE ON PLANNING, AND THEY USED IT IN THEIR STUDIES.

SO IT WAS A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT BEGINNING TO THE GENERAL SESSION.

AND OVERALL, THE TONE

[02:20:02]

OF THE SESSIONS WERE VERY SOMBER IN THE IDEA THAT OUR STATE LEGISLATURE, IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO BUILD MORE HOUSING, HAS TAKEN A LOT OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES OR SHIFTED A LOT OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES, I SHOULD SAY, AWAY FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS THE DETERMINING FACTOR TO ESTABLISHING ADDITIONAL HOUSING INVENTORY.

SO HE REALLY DID KIND OF FOCUS ON RENA NUMBERS AND SPEAKING ABOUT THE AB 130 AND THE SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

TRYING TO APPROVE THESE PROJECTS.

AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, MOST OF THE SPEAKERS DID TALK ABOUT IF YOU HAVE AN APPROVED HOUSING ELEMENT, IF YOU HAVE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A CLEAR PATH, DEVELOPERS WILL COME AND BUILD IN YOUR CITY, WHICH IS A POSITIVE.

AND WE ARE LUCKY TO HAVE ALL THOSE THINGS.

AND WE ARE NOT IN SITUATIONS OF UM MANY CITIES WHICH DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES WE ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE THAT HAVE TO GO THROUGH BUILDERS REMEDY BECAUSE THE STATE HAS TAKEN OVER THERE.

THEY DON'T HAVE APPROVED HOUSING ELEMENTS AND THEY ARE NOT MEETING THEIR RENA NUMBER.

CRITERIA FOR THE HOUSING AND, YOU KNOW, SO THEY'RE HAVING TO RESORT TO BUILDER'S REMEDY, WHICH TAKES AWAY ALL LOCAL CONTROL OF ALL THAT.

SO I THINK WE'RE REALLY FORTUNATE BASED ON SOME OF THE MANY CONVERSATIONS THAT WE WERE LUCKY TO HAVE AT THE COMMISSION, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, TRAINING.

AND THEN THE LAST SESSION WAS ALWAYS ABOUT THE UM, ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE UPDATES.

AND AGAIN, THE MAJORITY OF THE BILLS ARE HOUSING BILLS.

BUT THEY ARE FINALLY GETTING INVOLVED IN TRYING TO MITIGATE SOME OF THE, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY HOUSING IS A THREE-LEGGED STOOL, RIGHT? SO THERE'S THE REVIEW PROCESS THAT WE ALL ARE HERE FOR, YOU KNOW, TO TRY AND HELP PLAN FOR OUR CITY, RIGHT? AND THEN THERE'S THE FINANCING, WHICH IS REALLY...

NOT EASY TO COME BY THESE DAYS BECAUSE IT'S EXPENSIVE TO BUILD A PROJECT, AND THEN THE CONSTRUCTION COST.

SO RIGHT NOW THE STATE HAS, YOU KNOW, TAKEN THE TASK OF LOOKING AT THE REVIEW PROCESS, THE LOCAL PROCESS, BUT THEY'VE SORT OF DANCE AROUND OR MAYBE NOT DANCE AROUND.

THAT'S PROBABLY THE WRONG TERMINOLOGY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY ADDRESS THE FINANCING OR THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS.

NOT THAT THEY CAN ADDRESS MUCH OF THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS, BUT THE FINANCING COULD BE, AND THEY'RE STARTING NOW TO IMPLEMENT SOME FINANCING OPPORTUNITIES OR LEGISLATION.

WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT'S GOING TO GO.

BUT ON THE THREE-LEGGED STOOL RIGHT NOW, IT'S REALLY HEAVY ON THE PLANNERS AND NOT SO.

MUCH ON THE OTHER TWO LEGS.

SO I THINK THAT WAS REALLY WHAT I GOT OUT OF THE CONFERENCE, AND REALLY WONDERFUL SPEAKERS, REALLY GREAT OPPORTUNITY, GREAT WEATHER, YOU KNOW, SO IN ANAHEIM.

SO YEAH, IT WAS A WONDERFUL CONFERENCE.

EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT SUMMARY.

YEAH, I HAVE TO SAY, GREAT SPEAKERS, GREAT NETWORKING.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, LIKE YOU SAY ABOUT HOUSING, I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO SEE THAT A GOOD PORTION OF THE CONFERENCE REALLY DEALT WITH HOUSING.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH EVERY DAY.

AND THEY REALLY GOT IN DENSITY BONUS.

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

I WAS TALKING TO ONE GUY WHEN WE WERE HAVING BREAKFAST ONE MORNING, AND HE'S IN A CITY OUTSIDE OF FRESNO, PROBABLY MAYBE 15,000 PEOPLE, AND HE SAID, DENSITY BONUS? WHAT IS THAT? WE DON'T EVEN DEAL WITH DENSITY BONUS.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT...

OPEN LAND, ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS JUST BUILD SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES.

WE DON'T EVEN DEAL WITH ANY OF THOSE ISSUES.

SO HERE YOU HAVE THE CONTRASTING OF A CITY OF THIS SIZE AS WELL AS CITIES LIKE SAN DIEGO, LOS ANGELES, AND WHATEVER.

AND THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A CITY OF 15,000 WHO HAS NO IDEA WHATSOEVER.

HE SAID, I REALLY CAME TO THIS CONFERENCE, AND IT WAS REALLY EDUCATIONAL, BUT YET AT THE SAME TIME, I COULDN'T APPLY ANY OF IT.

SO IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO HEAR THAT CONTRAST.

BUT I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO SEE THAT SO MUCH OF THE CONFERENCE DEALT WITH, YOU KNOW, SESSIONS THAT DEALT WITH HOUSING.

SO IT WAS EXCELLENT.

I REALLY APPRECIATED THAT AS WELL.

GOOD SUMMARY.

[02:25:01]

OH, AND ONE OTHER THING.

THANK YOU TO THE CITY OF CARLSBAD FOR ALLOWING US TO ATTEND THIS CONFERENCE BECAUSE IT REALLY IS INCREDIBLY INFORMATIVE AND VERY, VERY HELPFUL.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO SUPPORT US BEING ABLE TO DO THIS.

IT WAS GREAT.

TOTALLY AGREE.

COMMISSIONERS, FURTHER COMMENTS? THAT WAS A GREAT SUMMARY.

VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY IN-DEPTH.

AND WHAT I WOULD JUST ADD IS THAT I ALSO AGREE, WILLIAM FULTON WAS PRETTY AMAZING TO LISTEN TO.

HE WAS.

AND OBVIOUSLY INCREDIBLY KNOWLEDGEABLE, BUT HOW HE WAS ALSO ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF DEVELOPMENT, AND HE'S BEEN DOING IT FOR SO LONG, AND HOW THAT'S CHANGED A BIT.

THE ONLY THINGS I WOULD ADD TO THAT IS THAT IT WAS GREAT TO INTERACT WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSIONERS FROM THE OTHER CITIES.

ALL OVER CALIFORNIA, HEARING THEM SAY THAT THEY'RE FACING A LOT OF THE EXACT SAME ISSUES THAT WE'RE FACING, SAVE FRESNO, BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, SEEING THOSE SAME ISSUES AND HOW THEY'RE DEALING WITH IT IN SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT SAME KIND OF PROJECTS, I THOUGHT WAS PRETTY INTERESTING.

AND ONE THING THAT THEY WERE STRESSING MUCH OF THE CONFERENCE IS, AS WE'RE SEEING ALL THESE DIFFERENT LAWS PASSED, AND ESPECIALLY THE LEGISLATIVE UPDATE TOWARDS THE END, THE NEED FOR US TO WORK.

CLOSELY WITH OUR LEGISLATORS TO TRY TO HELP SHAPE THOSE PIECES BECAUSE WITH THESE DIFFERENT CITIES ALL OVER THE STATE SEEING THE SAME THINGS THAT SAME MESSAGE SHOULD BE SENT TO THOSE INDIVIDUAL LEGISLATORS THAT TOGETHER HAVE TO VOTE SO UM I THINK THAT DOES HIGHLIGHT THE IMPORTANCE AND NEED OF WORKING WITH GROUPS LIKE LEAGUE CALIFORNIA CITIES WHO HAVE THAT ADVOCACY ARM AND HELP DRIVE THOSE EFFORTS.

SO I HOPE WE DO THAT FURTHER.

AND I AGREE, ANYONE WHO HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO SHOULD DEFINITELY GO.

AND I'M GLAD THAT THE CITY ENABLED US TO GO.

I TOTALLY AGREE. FURTHER COMMENTS? OKAY.

MR. LARDY, ANY COMMENT? I'M JUST GLAD WE WERE ABLE TO SEND THREE COMMISSIONERS.

THE CONFERENCE IS IN MONTEREY NEXT YEAR, SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHO IS INTERESTED, BUT WE WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO SEND.

IT APPEARS TO ROTATE BETWEEN THE NORTH AND SOUTH OF THE STATE EVERY OTHER YEAR.

A LOT OF THE MATERIALS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE, SO WE CAN SEND THOSE OUT THROUGH CYNTHIA, FOR THOSE THAT WEREN'T ABLE TO ATTEND CAN AT LEAST REVIEW SOME OF THE POWERPOINT SLIDES.

WE ARE LOOKING AT CANCELING THE APRIL 1ST MEETING.

WE HAVE A FEW ITEMS FOR APRIL 15TH, INCLUDING THE PROPOSED PC WORK PROGRAM.

SO I'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER THAT AT THAT MEETING AND A COUPLE OF PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS FOR CITY COUNCIL AT THE MEETING NEXT WEEK WILL BE THE GENERAL PLAN AND HOUSING ELEMENT ANNUAL PROGRESS REPORT.

SO THAT'LL REPORT ON OUR OFFICIAL HOUSING PRODUCTION NUMBERS AS WELL AS JUST OVERALL COMPLIANCE WITH THE PROGRAMS IN THE GENERAL PLAN.

AND AT THE MEETING ON THE 10TH, THE CITY COUNCIL HEARD AND APPROVED THE CONTRACT FOR COMPREHENSIVE PARKING STUDY AND HEARD THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-2025 GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN ANNUAL MONITORING REPORT.

SO THOSE WERE AVAILABLE, AND THE MEETING ALREADY OCCURRED, AND THE RECORDINGS ARE AVAILABLE IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED.

THANK YOU.

CITY ATTORNEY.

THANK YOU. NOTHING FROM ME.

NOTHING.

ALL RIGHTY.

FOR THAT, IT IS 7.28 P.M.

MEETING ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.

Mar 18, 2026 Planning Commission Meeting

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